Easy Large Batch Mashing

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Antler24
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:01 pm

Oldvine Zin wrote:Antler why don't you just siphon directly into the fermentor ? that's what I do and have had no issues with heat loss

OVZ
Both my fermenters and boiler sit on a shelf about 18" high, so I can easily siphon into a bucket from either. I don't have the means to get the boiler up higher than the fermenter, definitely not to hold the weight of 15g water
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by varocketry » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:21 pm

Not mine, no way , no day.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:50 am

varocketry wrote:Not mine, no way , no day.
Huh?


For all of you using this method for AG mashing, I'm assuming you don't reuse the yeast cake, other than dumping a sugar head wash on top of the grain? I've been doing multiple generations up until now, and wasting the yeast or separating the grains after mashing is the biggest hurdle to me for making the leap to AG. I switched from bakers to Nottingham yeast to better suit the fermenting temps of my basement, @ $5/pack for dry yeast it's gonna add to the cost of my batches. Ive been looking into making starters but that's gonna throw a wrench into my limited brewing time.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Truckinbutch » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:40 pm

How much ya spend on an off the shelf bottle of booze ?
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:10 pm

Truckinbutch wrote:How much ya spend on an off the shelf bottle of booze ?
Yeah I get that. It isn't the cost of the yeast alone as its 1.5hrs each way to the lhbs. I'm still gonna make the leap either way, lol
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:12 pm

Truckinbutch wrote:How much ya spend on an off the shelf bottle of booze ?
:thumbup:

Just get cheaper yeast, or learn how to split yeast (basically make a big starter, and seperate it into several small containers and put in frig...aka yeast bank from one pack of yeast ). Alternatively, you can do what I am planning to do. Scoop up a quart of corn and slurry from the bottom of the fermenter and put in frig. Then just dump the whole quart of corn, yeast and all in the new fermenter.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:31 pm

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote:How much ya spend on an off the shelf bottle of booze ?
:thumbup:

Just get cheaper yeast, or learn how to split yeast (basically make a big starter, and seperate it into several small containers and put in frig...aka yeast bank from one pack of yeast ). Alternatively, you can do what I am planning to do. Scoop up a quart of corn and slurry from the bottom of the fermenter and put in frig. Then just dump the whole quart of corn, yeast and all in the new fermenter.
Yes I was thinking about the yeast bank. I could make a sugar wash and then keep enough yeast to last the rest of the season I imagine. I also thought of taking the jar of grain/yeast slurry and pitching into the next wash but was worrying about infection. I guess it's not really different than ujsm if you sanitize everything.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by dukethebeagle120 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:00 pm

Antler24 wrote:
ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote:How much ya spend on an off the shelf bottle of booze ?
:thumbup:

Just get cheaper yeast, or learn how to split yeast (basically make a big starter, and seperate it into several small containers and put in frig...aka yeast bank from one pack of yeast ). Alternatively, you can do what I am planning to do. Scoop up a quart of corn and slurry from the bottom of the fermenter and put in frig. Then just dump the whole quart of corn, yeast and all in the new fermenter.
Yes I was thinking about the yeast bank. I could make a sugar wash and then keep enough yeast to last the rest of the season I imagine. I also thought of taking the jar of grain/yeast slurry and pitching into the next wash but was worrying about infection. I guess it's not really different than ujsm if you sanitize everything.
don`t worry about infection
it takes a shit load imo to screw up a batch
and usually a lacto etc gives u things you will want
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:19 pm

dukethebeagle120 wrote:
Antler24 wrote:
ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote:How much ya spend on an off the shelf bottle of booze ?
:thumbup:

Just get cheaper yeast, or learn how to split yeast (basically make a big starter, and seperate it into several small containers and put in frig...aka yeast bank from one pack of yeast ). Alternatively, you can do what I am planning to do. Scoop up a quart of corn and slurry from the bottom of the fermenter and put in frig. Then just dump the whole quart of corn, yeast and all in the new fermenter.
Yes I was thinking about the yeast bank. I could make a sugar wash and then keep enough yeast to last the rest of the season I imagine. I also thought of taking the jar of grain/yeast slurry and pitching into the next wash but was worrying about infection. I guess it's not really different than ujsm if you sanitize everything.
don`t worry about infection
it takes a shit load imo to screw up a batch
and usually a lacto etc gives u things you will want
Thanks I'll try it out soon. I got a ujsm-style bourbon fermenting right now with Nottingham, I'll grab a jar of that when I clean out the fermenter. I think I'm gonna hold off on the AG for now.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by jb-texshine » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:27 am

Antler,check into ordering online by the pound. Much simpler that way. Prices range from 12$ to 50$ per pound. Depending on type.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:08 pm

jb-texshine wrote:Antler,check into ordering online by the pound. Much simpler that way. Prices range from 12$ to 50$ per pound. Depending on type.
I looked for bulk lallemand dry yeast and even went right to lallemand and the price of a 500g brick starts at $145 USD or .40¢/gram. Compared to $5/11g pack or .45¢/gram at the lhbs, ain't much savings to be had there.


I'm just gonna ferment on the grain to start. I'll try rinsing enough yeast for the next ferment and see how it goes. I know infection isn't too much of a worry but often leave a wash in the fermenter for a month or more, which is why I was being cautious.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by zapata » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:12 pm

In your shoes I would make starters instead. Pitch a pack to 3 quarts or so of 1.040 ish malt extract wash. Boil it to sterilize. Aereate, stir, shake often, whatever you have the equipment for. I use a stir plate, but google shaken not stirred yeast starters if you dont.
Each quart is now equal to its own pack. They can also easily be multiplied at least one, if not 2 more times.
1 packet of yeast can thus easily be turned into up to 27 packets.equivalent to buying $.18 packets or $.02/gram. I'm most inclined to just do 1 more starter step, so that'd be 1 pack to 9, or $.56/pack. 90% savings is good enough for me, at that point my time is worth more than the savings.

Its not that much work when you get the hang of it, and the starters can be stored in the fridge for a bit.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Cu29er » Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:59 pm

GFS (Gordon Food Service) carries a big brick of Redstar yeast vacuum packed for $4 or so. I store it in the freezer and it can store nearly a year.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:43 am

Cu29er wrote:GFS (Gordon Food Service) carries a big brick of Redstar yeast vacuum packed for $4 or so. I store it in the freezer and it can store nearly a year.
I've used bakers yeast for the last few years with good results but my basement is cooler, so I'm trying an ale yeast better suited for the temps.
zapata wrote:In your shoes I would make starters instead. Pitch a pack to 3 quarts or so of 1.040 ish malt extract wash. Boil it to sterilize. Aereate, stir, shake often, whatever you have the equipment for. I use a stir plate, but google shaken not stirred yeast starters if you dont.
Each quart is now equal to its own pack. They can also easily be multiplied at least one, if not 2 more times.
1 packet of yeast can thus easily be turned into up to 27 packets.equivalent to buying $.18 packets or $.02/gram. I'm most inclined to just do 1 more starter step, so that'd be 1 pack to 9, or $.56/pack. 90% savings is good enough for me, at that point my time is worth more than the savings.

Its not that much work when you get the hang of it, and the starters can be stored in the fridge for a bit.


I've been tossing that idea around as well but time is limiting me. Im only home 3-4 days at a time then gone for 2 weeks or more. I still have to do more research on how much yeast can be built up in a single stage and how long it can be stored for. Thanks for reminding me.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:58 pm

So, It happened. This forever malt patriot took the plunge to the other side of the tracks and invested in some enzymes. I've been cooking up and running Booner's all month to stick into my barrel. Figured a barrel full of 100% corn isn't bad to have around. Besides, I'll probably get into blending with other 100% grains. Anyways, I'll never put my malt away for good, but it has been enlightening to see the other side. How does this help Large Batch mashing? Tons! It saves alot of time!

So, the biggest benefit that enzymes have for large batch mashing is that the high temp enzymes thin out the corn cooking. This we knew. The application is that with enzymes, you can cook closer to a 3lb/gal ratio rather than 2:1. So, instead of doing 1/3 of your corn with a 1/3 of the water, we can save the final 1/3 water addition to cool after mashing (1/2 the corn with 1/3 of the water). Also saves the 1 boiler heating cycle, because your saving that last 1/3 water to cool with.

So here's what I did. I have been mashing 75 lbs of corn meal in 40 gallons of water.

1) Boil 13 gallons of water in boiler, then dump onto 35 lbs of corn meal. Mix up, and quickly add the first 15ml (1 Tablespoon) into the mix, stir well, and wrap up to cook. Get the next 13 gallons filled and heating up.
img20171104_164442.jpg
2) My boiler takes about an hour to boil a keg full of water, so in that time I stir the corn twice, to help the enzymes move around and get that gel bomb thinning.

3) Dump in the 2nd boiling 13 gallons of water, and the remaining 40 lbs of corn. Stir well. Add in remaining 15ml of enzymes (1 tablespoon).

At this point you have 75 lbs of corn, 26 gallons of water, cooking at 175/180 degrees. Keep it wrapped up. Give it a few hours or over night. 4-6 hours minimum.

4) When the temp hits the 150 mark (stirring air into it with mixer helps) add your mashing enzymes. Stir and wrap back up.

So here's where the enzymes change the process. When using grains, I would just let the mash come down naturally to pitching temps (90ish-100ish degrees). This could sometimes take 36-48 hours. However, we still have 14 gallons of water to add. So at first I used to just add 14 gallons of cold water, but it really only brought the temp down 10 degrees. Then it hit me. I have a couple deep freezers....so...

5) Fill up a 5 gallon bucket with water (best time to do this is when you start your day of mashing, so it's ready). Place in deep freezer. After mashing for several hours and temp is around 135/140, add 5 gallons of ice, and 9 gallons of cold water.
img20171104_153856.jpg
Stir a few times until the block of ice is melted, and aerate. This should get you pretty close to 90/100 degrees, in a matter of an hour, not days.

6) Pitch Yeast.

Easy Large Batch Mashing just got easier :thumbup:
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by jb-texshine » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:32 pm

Frozen backset works great also.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by HDNB » Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:41 pm

3lbs per gallon?

i backed down to 280g per litre from 300...i'm still getting 1078, almost 11% potential.

(thats about 2.3 lbs/us gal)

yup, i love a fine grind :ebiggrin:
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:03 pm

It's 3 lb/gallon while cooking/mashing. When you cool it down with the remaining water, the final ratio is 1.875/gallon. I usually get 1.06 with straight corn, higher with malt bills. It works well because with enzymes it finishes pretty dry, and is a 8.5%-9% final. The sweet spot :thumbup:
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You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:38 am

raketemensch wrote:Where are you picking up your enzymes?
PM sent
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by jb-texshine » Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:49 am

HDNB wrote:3lbs per gallon?

i backed down to 280g per litre from 300...i'm still getting 1078, almost 11% potential.

(thats about 2.3 lbs/us gal)

yup, i love a fine grind :ebiggrin:
Cornmeal all the way!!!!!!!
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by japsinok » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:46 pm

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:It's 3 lb/gallon while cooking/mashing. When you cool it down with the remaining water, the final ratio is 1.875/gallon. I usually get 1.06 with straight corn, higher with malt bills. It works well because with enzymes it finishes pretty dry, and is a 8.5%-9% final. The sweet spot :thumbup:
That is similar to my results with my all blue corn mashes, though on a smaller scale. I gelatinized 20# ground corn in 6 gal water, cooled with several gals to bring down to 160F for the alpha, then another gal to bring to 140F for the gluco. Those usually finish out (OG) between 1.06 and 1.07 in a final vol of 10 gals. Lately I've switched to malting half the corn which makes it much easier since I only have to gelatinize 10#, and add the malted corn at ~150F. I still use enzymes (as a crutch) and get similar (1.06~1.07) results in a 10 gal final volume. So, my original cooking ratio is slightly more than 3#/gal for the 20# unmalted mash, but the final mash, with or without malted corn, is 2#/gal.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by panikry83 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:05 pm

SCD came over yesterday and we did this process for my latest attempt at all grain. Super easy, no fussing. I'm cooling it down atm and will pitch my yeast in the morning. I'd advise anyone to follow this process to the letter and enjoy the easy large batches.

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:26 pm

SCD no backset? I'm wondering when would be the best time to add the backset?
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:31 pm

Antler24 wrote:SCD no backset? I'm wondering when would be the best time to add the backset?
Back set is an individual stiller choice. Feel free to incorporate to the mash if you like. Just put it in your broiler and boil at your discretion
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by jb-texshine » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:49 pm

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Antler24 wrote:SCD no backset? I'm wondering when would be the best time to add the backset?
Back set is an individual stiller choice. Feel free to incorporate to the mash if you like. Just put it in your broiler and boil at your discretion
I like frozen backset for cooling and ph adjusting
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:06 pm

jb-texshine wrote:
ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Antler24 wrote:SCD no backset? I'm wondering when would be the best time to add the backset?
Back set is an individual stiller choice. Feel free to incorporate to the mash if you like. Just put it in your broiler and boil at your discretion
I like frozen backset for cooling and ph adjusting
+1.

There's that, too. Cool with it or cook with it. Your choice.

Cooking with it will help the enzymes.
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by Antler24 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:11 pm

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
jb-texshine wrote:
ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Antler24 wrote:SCD no backset? I'm wondering when would be the best time to add the backset?
Back set is an individual stiller choice. Feel free to incorporate to the mash if you like. Just put it in your broiler and boil at your discretion
I like frozen backset for cooling and ph adjusting
+1.

There's that, too. Cool with it or cook with it. Your choice.

Cooking with it will help the enzymes.
Hmm thanks boys. How important is the pH adjusting? I've only been doing sugarheads so far and have never bothered to even check pH. I've never had a problem but is pH more important in an AG mash?
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there

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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by HDNB » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:23 pm

unless there is something up with the water it's a fairly natural progression.
water a 7ish PH when you add grain drops to 6.2 ish, and is just right for liquefaction of starch enzyme.

once liquefied and cooked it drops into the 5's and then is just nice for saccharification enzymes (low 5's is good for this enzyme so this is the time to add backset if any)

when you have reduced it to sugar water the ph is low 5's and is just nice for yeast addtion
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Re: Easy Large Batch Mashing

Post by jb-texshine » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:30 pm

Deletes post and kicks at rock in disappointment because he^^^ types faster... :oops:
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