Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Guerilla Distillah
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Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Did a batch of Odin's rye bread whiskey. Started off great then went super quiet. Stuck at 1.055. Ph is too low to change dip strips. Grabbed a sample and dipped my reef tank controller Ph probe and got a 1.58...YIKES. Tried some baking soda...nothin. Held out til next day and picked "5.2 Mash stabilizer" at HBS. Used 4TBSP to a 25gal mash and got 2.5. Today bought the larger size and used 5T's this eve...STILL won't trigger dip strip so it's sub 4. Bummed and confused...down to 1.040 but still sweet. Any suggestions?

GD
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nerdybrewer
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by nerdybrewer »

Got a feed store around there?
Get some crushed oyster shells, hell of a lot cheaper than the stuff you been adding and self limiting.
You did thoroughly stir the mash after adding those didn't you?
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975

Time and Oak will sort it out.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by BayouShine »

How high was your OG for it to stall out at 1.055?
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by rubber duck »

1.58 would take a lot of talent, I seriously doubt you got a wash to go that low, I think it's a bad reading. Try some chalk that can fix some minor issues.
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NZChris
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by NZChris »

Slaked lime is good, but add it slowly, stirring well and rechecking with each addition.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Jes2xu »

Slaked lime . . . huh . . .
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by NZChris »

Jes2xu wrote:Slaked lime . . . huh . . .
You can get it at your local building supplies in 25kg bags for bugger all. A bag will last you a while.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Jes2xu »

NZChris wrote:
Jes2xu wrote:Slaked lime . . . huh . . .
You can get it at your local building supplies in 25kg bags for bugger all. A bag will last you a while.
So this is the same stuff as hydrated lime right? The super fine powder?

I have a but load of the stuff left over from a Pizza oven build.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by NZChris »

The info is usually printed on on the bags.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

I haven't calibrated the probe on my fish tank in a few months but I double tested the dip strips with my tap water and the strips changed color both times with tap water and still no change in mash. On strips. Just curious if "Pickling Lime" would work? I have some in the pantry.

GD
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by greggn »

Slaked Lime ... Pickling Lime ... Hydrated Lime ... Calcium Hydroxide. Same stuff, different names.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Yummyrum »

LOL , I went to my local Feed stock store to buy some
Slaked Lime ... Pickling Lime ... Hydrated Lime ... Calcium Hydroxide. Same stuff, different names.
also Brickies Lime ( for making mortar) and quick lime ...and the smart arse behind the counter wanted to know if I was disposing of a body :lol: ....apparently if a beast dies, the farmers will dig a hole and throw a couple of bags of Quick lime on top of it to aid the decomposition of the carcass .

Which brings me to an important point ...Calcium Hydroxide is extremely alkali and it makes short work of flesh and eyes ...so iff'n you are into" Work Health and Safety" and all that stuff then stick on your gloves and eye protection when using it ....seriously ...this stuff in you eyes is bad , likely to cause permanent damage before you wash it out ..... and it doesn't do your hands any flavors either .


But being extremely alkali , it is a good choice in reducing the acidity in an extremely acidic wash . :thumbup:

But ... Calcium Hydroxide is not very soluble in water . If you get a glass of water and stir in a few teaspoons it will at first be a milky solution often called "milk of lime" ...it is milky looking because the calcium hydroxide floating around but not dissolving into the water . Eventually the calcium hydroxide precipitates to the bottom of the glass . The solution that is left above the precipitate is called "lime water " and is the proportion of calcium hydroxide that is dissolved in water .

I can vouch for the effectiveness of this stuff in pH adjusting .
I used it quite a bit when I was playing around with Rum clarification experiments . Molasses washes have a very unique buffering property and requires extremely strong acids and alkali's to change it's pH
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Forgive me, but I did not get a definitive yes on my question regarding whether or not pickling lime would be sufficient in this application? I heard a lot of other limes, And I also have experienced the difficulty of dissolving this into water. Is there a better way to get it into solution before adding it to my mash?

GD
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Lyonsie »

Yummyrum wrote:LOL , I went to my local Feed stock store to buy some
Slaked Lime ... Pickling Lime ... Hydrated Lime ... Calcium Hydroxide. Same stuff, different names.
also Brickies Lime ( for making mortar) and quick lime ...and the smart arse behind the counter wanted to know if I was disposing of a body :lol: ....apparently if a beast dies, the farmers will dig a hole and throw a couple of bags of Quick lime on top of it to aid the decomposition of the carcass .

Which brings me to an important point ...Calcium Hydroxide is extremely alkali and it makes short work of flesh and eyes ...so iff'n you are into" Work Health and Safety" and all that stuff then stick on your gloves and eye protection when using it ....seriously ...this stuff in you eyes is bad , likely to cause permanent damage before you wash it out ..... and it doesn't do your hands any flavors either .


But being extremely alkali , it is a good choice in reducing the acidity in an extremely acidic wash . :thumbup:

But ... Calcium Hydroxide is not very soluble in water . If you get a glass of water and stir in a few teaspoons it will at first be a milky solution often called "milk of lime" ...it is milky looking because the calcium hydroxide floating around but not dissolving into the water . Eventually the calcium hydroxide precipitates to the bottom of the glass . The solution that is left above the precipitate is called "lime water " and is the proportion of calcium hydroxide that is dissolved in water .

I can vouch for the effectiveness of this stuff in pH adjusting .
I used it quite a bit when I was playing around with Rum clarification experiments . Molasses washes have a very unique buffering property and requires extremely strong acids and alkali's to change it's pH
Off topic. But i used to work in construction where we sometimes handled lime. There was no health and saftey back then and we used to think that handling it was great for healing up all the cuts and scrapes your hands would have from working in construction. :shock:
I thought i was wrong once,
But then i found out i was mistaken.

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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Yummyrum »

Guerilla Distillah wrote:Forgive me, but I did not get a definitive yes on my question regarding whether or not pickling lime would be sufficient in this application? I heard a lot of other limes, And I also have experienced the difficulty of dissolving this into water. Is there a better way to get it into solution before adding it to my mash?

GD
Yes Pickling Lime is OK ..its Calcium Hydroxide

Stir some into water, let it settle .....overnight at least , pour the clearish stuff into the wash a bit at a time say about 20 mls .stir it into the wash .Let it react for a while , stir again take a pH measurement ...repeat as necessary

But always stir and wait ....a few minutes . absolutely pointless just dribbling in a bit and taking a measurement .
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Got it. Much appreciated, thank you

GD
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

What is your best suggestion for picking up something easily found locally today so that I could make the additions today and not have to wait 24 hours for the calcium hydroxide solution to clear?

GD
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by NZChris »

I already told you mine.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Roger that Chris. Came home and put 2 heapin TBSP of pickling lime in a quart jar. Should and settled 5 times over an hr...settled and decanted...caused dip strip to turn INSTANT DEATH PURPLE. Added 1/3 of liquid, stirred well, waited 30 min. No change on strip. Added another 1/3 and repeated. Guess I will try slaked lime tomorrow. This is retTARDed. Is this because I use RO/DI water? I have reef tanks so I have a large water maker and 150 gals of on demand storage for emergencies.

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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by NZChris »

Guerilla Distillah wrote:This is retTARDed. Is this because I use RO/DI water?
Demineralized water of any type needs to be re-mineralized for yeast to thrive in it.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by bentstick »

Are you on City water or well?
Can you by pass the RO system for your mash/wash water?
The slow/stalled ferment is to quickly blamed on low ph, but you do need nutriants to keep yeast happy!
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Well it IS still bubblin. Just slowly. What if I made up one of Pugi's yeast bombs??

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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by shadylane »

[quote="Guerilla Distillah"]Well it IS still bubblin. Just slowly. What if I made up one of Pugi's yeast bombs?[/quote
You did good using distillers malt to convert some of the starch to sugar.
The yeast also will love the nutrients in the malt. :thumbup:

Just a thought
It's easier to avoid a stuck ferment, than it is to re-start it.
I Figure... Malt, Pugi's yeast bomb and crushed oyster shells for pH control
Should increase your odds for future success.
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Is this protocol gonna be necessary in EVERY wash or just this rye recipe?

GD
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by StillerBoy »

There is no mention of your wash temperature, and yeast used.. from experience doing odin's rye bread with bread yeast, if your wash is low in temp and you have very low ph.. it will require some time to over come the acidity level.. raise the temp to at least 85F and add calcium carbonate (cc) (which is what I use) in the amount of 1/2 to 1 cup for 25L wash.. normally that large an amount is not required, but if you go below 3, it is very slow coming back up and requires lots cc..

I start my wash for the rye bread at 5.5 level and within 24 hrs I recheck and it will have worked down to 4.2, and with 4 or 5 tsp of cc the ph come back to 4.5 and will stay there for the rest of fermentation, which usually take 5 or 6 days at 82F..

Mars
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Thanks Mars. Great info. Are used generic distillers yeast And I keep my fermentation room in the 80s Is this phenomenon specific to fry fermentations? Because I haven't had any issues like this with anything else. My rum washes I always give the used bomb

GD
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by shadylane »

Guerilla Distillah wrote:Is this protocol gonna be necessary in EVERY wash or just this rye recipe?GD
Hells fire, thought I was answering this post http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=65766
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by StillerBoy »

Guerilla Distillah wrote:Did a batch of Odin's rye bread whiskey.
I don't how to made your rye bread wash, but here's how I do my.. I bring 4l of water to a boil in a 16 -20L pot and put the heat down to 2 on the stove, (the pumkinickel bread I use comes in 500gr and sliced into 10 pieces), then I take 5 slices broken up in the bender and fill the bender to within an inch of the top with boiling water, and blend for 30 second, then pour into the pot and do the same for the 3 breads used ( 1.5 K)..

When its all done the pot temp should be around 160 to 165F, if about 160 let it cool down to 155 - 158F, then I add some enzymes, give it a good stir, wrap the pot with a towel, and let it do its work overnight.. next morning I dissolve 3K of sugar in the fermenter, add the rye bread, DAP, Epsom, bring water to 26L and a temp of 85F, give it a good stir, check ph and SG, adjust for 5.5, sprinkle the yeast on top, give the yeast 20 -25 minute to proof, then give it a good stir again, and good to go.. check ph 24 hrs after and adjust.. done in 4 days and I give it an addition 3 days, then I filter it with geotex fabric, 2 -3 of rest and rack into boiler or store in carboy..

It has never fail me yet..

Mars
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by Guerilla Distillah »

Hey Mars, at the risk of jackin my own thread, can u explain how exactly u use the geotex fabric and where I might go to get less than a ROLL of the stuff?

GD
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Re: Can anybody help with my Ph issue?

Post by StillerBoy »

Guerilla Distillah wrote:can u explain how exactly u use the geotex fabric and where I might go to get less than a ROLL of the stuff?
The credit goes to Flatwood for bring it to the attention of the members..

All the info on the geotex fabric and how I use it is there.. on page 6 it shows the setup I use.. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 83&t=58545

Mars
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