trying to increase proof

[leroyz]

I have made a few runs with my still but am only getting about 120 proof then it drops as one would expect. My mash is made of 7 lbs sugar, 5 lbs cracked corn and turbo yeast. This is for a conventional 5 gal electric still with a thumper purchased from vengeance stills. I have 2 new mashes working now and i increased the amout of sugar to 10 lbs hoping that would in crease the alcohol content when it is run. Hydrometer testing is around 15 % prior to adding yeast . any tips or corrections would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[cuginosgrizzo]

distill twice...

[Still Life]

Bigger isn't necessarily better in proof.
A reflux still will give you a higher proof, but maybe less of it. Same with double distilling.

My pot still regularly graced me with ~120 proof.
Remember, think Quality! She's giving what she's got.
More of this and more of that can stress yeast and give you a poor product.
What good is proof then?

Others will chime in, I'm sure...

[ShineRunner]

You've got a pot still. It's doing it's job and that's not the pot's fault. It's your fault for trying to use a hammer as a screwdriver. Now, there are ways to increase the final output, but ultimately, a simple pot still can only do so much.

Read up on:
Double distillation
Thumpers
Reflux stills

Then decide what product you want. If you want single run 90+% alcohol with minimal flavor, then you need a reflux still. If you want flavored spirits, then you want a pot still. You just need to learn how to do that (double runs).

Increasing the proof of your wash will only increase your output by a little bit. But, it will likely stress the yeast and they will crap in your drink. Not a good tradeoff.

SR

Edit: just reread your post and see you're using a thumper. What are you charging it with? How big is it?

You say it's 15% potential alcohol before fermentation. What's the hydrometer reading after fermentation?

[NZChris]

Put low wines in the thumper.

If you are recycling feints, put the heads in the thumper and the tails in the boiler.

[BoomTown]

Simplest answer is to use a thumper (sometimes called a doubler for this reason) and run slow. That will improve proof, though reduce volume, and if you load it with your heads and tails, you'll build congeners with each cycle.

Good luck

[Pikey]

Put low wines in the thumper.

If you are recycling feints, put the heads in the thumper and the tails in the boiler.

I don't as yet have a thumper, but all i've read says "tails in thumper" (feints) or "wash" - now I have a great deal of faith in NZ Chris" as an authority figure - WHy do you have the opposite view - please ?

[NZChris]

Put low wines in the thumper.

If you are recycling feints, put the heads in the thumper and the tails in the boiler.

I don't as yet have a thumper, but all i've read says "tails in thumper" (feints) or "wash" - now I have a great deal of faith in NZ Chris" as an authority figure - WHy do you have the opposite view - please ?

Why would you want to distill your fresh wash through the fusels and methanol you discarded with the tails from the last run?

[BoomTown]

[
Why would you want to distill your fresh wash through the fusels and methanol you discarded with the tails from the last run?

Do it the way you get the closest to the taste you are aiming at. As for distilling fresh through the fusels....I suggest you calculate what the total volume of alcohol you anticipate from each run, and collect the 1st 5 - 10% as feints. (usually high proof like 150 - 160, falling off to middle run value of 140 down to 100 for best cuts). Some define 'feints' as the combined heads and tails from the last run. To me, feints were/are the unwanted alcohols that come out first. These I never used to redistill, in fact, we'd burn it in our lawn mower because of the concentration of bad alcholoids. The Methanol, Acetone, and such has no business in any beverage.

As for why to charge the thumper with the other combined heads and tails, these cuts are rich in what are called congeners. Congeners are small quantities of other substances the contribute character to the final product. They are what make rum taste like rum, and whiskey like whiskey, and brandy like brandy. Never made vodka, but this step would likely not be needed, or desired. After a run, what is left in the thumper is highly concentrated congener material. Heads and hearts need to be diluted to about 40% or less to operate safely, and we use congener collected to accomplish that dilution. We collected and kept about 1/3 of the thumper's load for the next run. After about 6 or eight cycles, the control you have of the taste of your still's output becomes very predictable.

We also adjusted our mash temperatures to achieve part of the taste profile we want, but the reliance on congeners is crucial in reproducing a flavor through multiple cycles and over months of time.

Enjoy the hobby.

Boom

[Pikey]

Put low wines in the thumper.

If you are recycling feints, put the heads in the thumper and the tails in the boiler.

I don't as yet have a thumper, but all i've read says "tails in thumper" (feints) or "wash" - now I have a great deal of faith in NZ Chris" as an authority figure - WHy do you have the opposite view - please ?

Why would you want to distill your fresh wash through the fusels and methanol you discarded with the tails from the last run?

No Chris, my question - not yours - I'm simply quoting everything I've read on thumpers.

[NZChris]

Firstly, methanol comes over throughout the distillation and is elevated in the tails. There was a recent thread on this, debunking the often repeated internet mantra of meths being in the heads.

Your heart cut comes from the final boiler, be it a simple pot, pot & thumper, or Jamaican style double thumper, so whatever you put in the last boiler affects it. If you increase the % of any of the tails components, they will be elevated through through the run, unless you believe the Magic Boiling Myth, (I don't). If you want these components, then fine, add the tails. If you are doing AG or rum and can find the sweet spot where you are always discarding enough tails that the nasties don't build up to where they decrease your heart cut, then good for you. The OP will have fun trying do that with a 15% Turbo UJSSM

I grow a really difficult fruit, feijoa, that I would like to capture in a bottle just to prove it can be done, (I won't be able to do anything about the high methanol content except not drink too much), and what BoomTown is doing might be what is needed to capture this elusive little bugger, but using it to make UJSSM with my current stock of corn that has a strong poo smell that decides the first tails jar ... that would just be silly.

[bilgriss]

I'm guessing the poo smell bit should get tossed.

This discussion always interests me, as it seems that so many people are so certain that their recycling methods are beneficial and that others will have issues. My own experience is way too limited to have an opinion, but it seems what goes back into thumpers, low wines, mashes, and final product is very subjective. These are the types of things that experience and personal preference will make more clear as time goes on. In the meantime, my only advice is to not deviate too wildly from a standard protocol until you have that experience. Take notes, figure out what works, make small changes and note the difference. It doesn't take all that long before things get more intuitive. Have fun, and be safe.

[NZChris]

Yes, it is very subjective. BoomTown may cut to tails way before I do. Unless you get together with someone and compare what you would do with a lineup of jars, you don't really know what each other are talking about.

My preference is to stockpile feints, (everything except the foreshot), as continued recycling started eating into the size of my heart cut. After lots of experimenting, I can make very fine product out of the feints now.

[BoomTown]

Firstly, methanol comes over throughout the distillation and is elevated in the tails. There was a recent thread on this, debunking the often repeated internet mantra of meths being in the heads.

NZChris, sorry to be a pest, I missed a few months of exchanges here, but would like to review that thread. Can you drop me a link to it?

b

[NZChris]

A download to s study is here:
http://bookshop.europa.eu/en/a-study-on ... CGNA16864/
A thread here:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 33&t=40606

[leroyz]

Thanks for all the help , I ran my last two mashes on coming out at 140% (turbo) and the other coming out at 130% (bread) the bread yeast did not have such a strong yeast smell in the final product but I still ran it through charcoal filter to take out any of the yeast taste. I was using approx 1 gal thumper and i just add water to it (which i believed was to help clean or take out impurities in shine). If I am reading some of the posts correctly , suggestions are to do a full run , put all that collections back into still and re-run the now shine and the final product will be even better quality ?

[Bushman]

Not with the original question but your first post says you are using Turbo yeast, this will not add to the flavor and with the neutriants in the corn Turbo yeast is not necessary and I would ditch it for the other yeasts recommended on the forum.

[NZChris]

130 proof is very good for aging, so there shouldn't be any need to run it again.