Subsitutions for Oyster Shells

[butterpants]

For mash buffering purposes in non grain washes....I'm thinking of buffering with Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3 - "chalk") in lieu of crushed oyster shells. My thoughts are consistency/repeatability , purity and availability. Lab grade powder measures out consistently and has a known intrinsic ability to buffer without impurities plus I have a lot of it on hand. Ground up sea shells which grew in whatever environment and could have embedded compounds do not. Plus I'd have to buy them and quality reviews on amazon are all over the place.

Any issues you guys can think of other than finding a conversion rate for what "two handfuls of shells" is in chalk??

[still_stirrin]

I'd say 1 Tsp per 5 gallons would be plenty. You didn't say how big your wash is or how acidic it is. But a "general rule" is good for "seat of the pants" adjustments. If you need a more analytic reply, then you're gonna' have to do the math.
ss

[Pikey]

Hi, for all grain "Mashing" purposes you need a PH neutral (ish) solution for the enzymes to work effectively, before decreasing the PH for the yeast to be happy.

For a grain "Wash" you need a "Sour mash" which needs acid.

For a "NON-grain" I postulate that you want a relatively Acid wash to assist the yeast.

in this case - no PH Buffering is required. Depending on your ingredients, you may need to add acid.

Need more details.

[Edit - Where do you think "limestone" - Ca CO3 comes from ?]

[Oldvine Zin]

For mash buffering purposes in non grain washes....I'm thinking of buffering with Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3 - "chalk") in lieu of crushed oyster shells. My thoughts are consistency/repeatability , purity and availability. Lab grade powder measures out consistently and has a known intrinsic ability to buffer without impurities plus I have a lot of it on hand. Ground up sea shells which grew in whatever environment and could have embedded compounds do not. Plus I'd have to buy them and quality reviews on amazon are all over the place.

Any issues you guys can think of other than finding a conversion rate for what "two handfuls of shells" is in chalk??

Can't help you on an a conversion, just lucky to live in the pacific northwest, oysters are cheap and plentiful

OVZ

[Truckinbutch]

Anywhere chickens are being raised there are oyster shells in abundance at the feed stores . Some folks get too finiky about 'pure , human grade components' when there ain't no such .
Just check how much rat and mouse parts and bugs are acceptabale in your next can of Campbell's Soup per USDA inspectors .

[NZChris]

Because it is finely ground it will behave differently to chicken grit and they both behave differently to whole shell because the ratios of surface area to volume are greater.

Get a pH meter, or strips, know the pH range you want to work in, then add it as required and don't stuff it up.

Keep good records and they will become your manual.

[Swedish Pride]

I eat eggs, on occasion I need to buffer the ph i add an eggshell or two to the mix.

not an issue i have often as i don't do generations often

[Badmotivator]

I use chunks of marble. No mess, no grit, no smell or flavor, reusable.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=64169

[amdamgraham]

Marble - interesting! Do you notice that over time your pieces of marble show that they are slowly dissolving?

From wikipedia: Marble is a metamorphic rock that forms when limestone is subjected to the heat and pressure of metamorphism. It is composed primarily of the mineral calcite (CaCO3) and usually contains other minerals, such as clay minerals, micas, quartz, pyrite, iron oxides, and graphite.

[Badmotivator]

Marble - interesting! Do you notice that over time your pieces of marble show that they are slowly dissolving?

Yep. Read that link and you'll see.

Marble is fairly cheap, readily available, chemically appropriate, and easy to handle.

[bluefish_dist]

I started with oyster shells, but moved to calcium carbonate since the oyster shells did not dissolve fast enough in large washes. All grain really won't need much as it has pretty good buffering capacity. Sugar washes will need more.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I started with oyster shells, but moved to calcium carbonate since the oyster shells did not dissolve fast enough in large washes.
Oyster shells ground to a fine powder seem to work pretty well. But, I only do 50 Gal mashes (AG).
All grain really won't need much as it has pretty good buffering capacity. Sugar washes will need more.

I tend to pitch in the 5.2 range, and I haven't seen a finish below 4.6

[butterpants]

Interesting discussion. Thank you. I figured you guys would figure out I had access to a pH meter since I mentioned lab grade CaCO3. No hard feelins'. I don't need any exact amounts of what to add....I'll figure that out. Just wondering what guys are using. I could imagine heavy metal contamination getting into shell based water-borne life. The tractor store stuff they sell here isn't pure shells, some other grit and crap added. Seemed like I should avoid it. Yep, just talking sugar and rum washes.

[bluefish_dist]

I started with oyster shells, but moved to calcium carbonate since the oyster shells did not dissolve fast enough in large washes.
Oyster shells ground to a fine powder seem to work pretty well. But, I only do 50 Gal mashes (AG).
All grain really won't need much as it has pretty good buffering capacity. Sugar washes will need more.

I tend to pitch in the 5.2 range, and I haven't seen a finish below 4.6

If the shells are ground to a powder, then it probably works well. I buy calcium carbonate by the 50lb bag and it's pretty cheap. I regularly do 80 gallon ferments which start at 5.2, end about 4.0 with about 2-3 lbs added. Unfortunately my water doesn't have much buffering capacity. My first ferments ended down in the 3.8-3.6 range with crushed oyster shells.
I also feel better knowing I am buying food grade cc vs unknown source shells or coral.

[Truckinbutch]

Gonna boil that ferment to extract alcohol out of it . How much more sterile do you need to get ?

[frunobulax]

I have soft water and will always get a ph crash when making a sugar wash.
I use Calcium hydroxide/ Slaked lime/ Pickling lime. It's very potent and instant with repeatable results.
They also have it in the canning section at my local hardware store.

[Kareltje]

I use shells of eggs. I take off the fine peel on the inside to get the pure chalk. Then I cruch and boil it to prevent spoiling the ferment with unwanted germs.

[DAD300]

"I started with oyster shells, but moved to calcium carbonate since the oyster shells did not dissolve fast enough in large washes."

Exactly why their mass is an advantage. Put in from the start of a new ferment, the shells will only dissolve as necessary. At 5.0ish...they will not release any calcium. Lower they begin to dissolve and maintain without the stress of up and down.

Dropping a cup of powder into a 3.6 ph ferment to bring it back to 4.2 ph stresses the yeast horribly, while the shells never let it get low.

[bluefish_dist]

"I started with oyster shells, but moved to calcium carbonate since the oyster shells did not dissolve fast enough

Dropping a cup of powder into a 3.6 ph ferment to bring it back to 4.2 ph stresses the yeast horribly, while the shells never let it get low.

I found that the oyster shells would not prevent a ph crash. Now I am running larger ferments (80 gal) than most here, but they did not provide enough buffering for sugar washes. I also tried bringing a crashed wash up above 4 with shells. It would not do it. The shells would just sit on the bottom. Might also be because I use cone bottom fermenters so there is very little surface area.

Cc is no fully soluble in water so it will also go into solution as needed and for me worked far better.

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

+1 blue.

I have had many mashes and washes get below 4.0 with shells. I still throw them in because they are cheap, and who knows how far it could have dropped without them. But when I have dramatic drops in ph (even with shells), I use pickling lime to fix it. Shells worked better when I was doing 5 gallon batches, but not as great now that I am going 50 gallon batches.

Ph is tricky to accurately measure, tricky to fix. I only trust my ph meter so much.

[Tomb]

Like some others I have my wife save me the shells from a dozen eggs.
Boil them for a while (the smell is a bit revolting to some) and then into a small grinder until they are alsmot powder.

Amazingly heavy stuff!

Last time I used about 1g per 3l.

T

[johnnyv]

[tr][th]Acid (mol/L)[/th] [td]1[/td] [td]10−1[/td] [td]10−2[/td] [td]10−3[/td] [td]10−4[/td] [td]10−5[/td] [td]10−6[/td] [td]10−7[/td] [td]10−10[/td][/tr] [tr][th]Initial pH[/th] [td]0.00[/td] [td]1.00[/td] [td]2.00[/td] [td]3.00[/td] [td]4.00[/td] [td]5.00[/td] [td]6.00[/td] [td]6.79[/td] [td]7.00[/td][/tr] [tr][th]Final pH[/th] [td]6.75[/td] [td]7.25[/td] [td]7.75[/td] [td]8.14[/td] [td]8.25[/td] [td]8.26[/td] [td]8.26[/td] [td]8.26[/td] [td]8.27[/td][/tr] [tr][th]Dissolved CaCO3 (g/L of acid)[/th] [td]50.0[/td] [td]5.00[/td] [td]0.514[/td] [td]0.0849[/td] [td]0.0504[/td] [td]0.0474[/td] [td]0.0471[/td] [td]0.0470[/td] [td]0.0470[/td][/tr] Powdered calcium carbonate will dissolve much faster than oyster shells.

[Steve3730]

I've always done 5-8 gallon batches but next week I'm upping to a 30 gallon AG batch. I never thought stepping up the size of the batch would change the PH issues. Would using calcium carb to adjust the pitching PH to 5.2 and shells added as a safety net work? I would probably put the shells in bags and suspended them at different heights throughout the fermenter. Thoughts?

[bluefish_dist]

All grain will use a lot less for adjustment. On a sugar wash I can add 1 cup to 80 gallons to move from 3.8-3.9 to 4.2. On an all grain bourbon that same move only needed 1/4 cup.