Another person with Corn Trouble.

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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HDNB
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Re: Another person with Corn Trouble.

Post by HDNB »

so what i still don't get is the thickness problem. IF it was preservatives, i could see the yeast not working...but the enzymes?

on a re-read here the overnight gelatinization temp was also reduced 50*... perhaps at 250* you were creating a polymer out of the starch that the enzymes could not sever?

at the grain/water ratio during a cook to say 190-195 for 90 minutes a mash would not even get thick.

i had a problem with my mash tun once where it would not heat properly and only got to 170* so i went for extra time because of the low temperature about 5 hours. that mash stalled at half done, never to be re=started.

wikipedia "If starch is subjected to dry heat, it breaks down to form dextrins, also called "pyrodextrins" in this context. This break down process is known as dextrinization. (Pyro)dextrins are mainly yellow to brown in color and dextrinization is partially responsible for the browning of toasted bread"

i think you were too hot too long. but, meh, i ain't no chemist.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
Tapeman
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Re: Another person with Corn Trouble.

Post by Tapeman »

HDNB wrote:so what i still don't get is the thickness problem. IF it was preservatives, i could see the yeast not working...but the enzymes?

on a re-read here the overnight gelatinization temp was also reduced 50*... perhaps at 250* you were creating a polymer out of the starch that the enzymes could not sever?

at the grain/water ratio during a cook to say 190-195 for 90 minutes a mash would not even get thick.

i had a problem with my mash tun once where it would not heat properly and only got to 170* so i went for extra time because of the low temperature about 5 hours. that mash stalled at half done, never to be re=started.

wikipedia "If starch is subjected to dry heat, it breaks down to form dextrins, also called "pyrodextrins" in this context. This break down process is known as dextrinization. (Pyro)dextrins are mainly yellow to brown in color and dextrinization is partially responsible for the browning of toasted bread"

i think you were too hot too long. but, meh, i ain't no chemist.
Dextrin is a starch used in glues and pastes industrially. I have a pail of the stuff sitting around, think I might dump a little enzymes in and see what happens.
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Lawfish
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Re: Another person with Corn Trouble.

Post by Lawfish »

Late to this thread, I know, but FWIW, I cook my corn in the oven at 200 for 8 hours. Never boils, and it renders 100% of the starch. After that, once I've mixed it into my brew pot, and it's being stirred by the overhead mixer, I hit it with an immersion blender for a couple minutes to break up the big chunks. This last batch I did I used 10 pounds of corn. My spent grains were at least half the volume of the original grain. I got a 6 gallon mash around 1.058, which I'm thrilled with.
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Tapeman
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Re: Another person with Corn Trouble.

Post by Tapeman »

Lawfish wrote:Late to this thread, I know, but FWIW, I cook my corn in the oven at 200 for 8 hours. Never boils, and it renders 100% of the starch. After that, once I've mixed it into my brew pot, and it's being stirred by the overhead mixer, I hit it with an immersion blender for a couple minutes to break up the big chunks. This last batch I did I used 10 pounds of corn. My spent grains were at least half the volume of the original grain. I got a 6 gallon mash around 1.058, which I'm thrilled with.
What do you use to convert the starch?
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Re: Another person with Corn Trouble.

Post by BourbonJim »

I left this post a little while and came back to it. Glad to see all the activity. I hope it has helped someone.

I never heard of dectrinization. That’s certainly a possibility. I just don’t understand why changing the corn has such a big impact. I have been through a few batches and the last method I described works great.

I will say that hitting the right temps is critical. So is PH. I monitor these closely.

As for what I use to convert the starch, I use malted barley, malted wear and malted rye. At the correct temps and volumes they have plenty of power to convert the starches. I am getting much better yields from this method with the new corn. I have added an additional fermentation by keeping the grains adding water and sugar back to them. It’s so much easier and the yield is incredible. But it’s just not the same so it’s mainly for others or mixing. The all grain recepie is for me and very special select friends. Or just for me.
hellbilly007
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Re: Another person with Corn Trouble.

Post by hellbilly007 »

After reading this thread twice the only thing that jumps out at me is the temperature. 250F over night, a lot of the water evaporated away, hence why it was so thick. Perhaps not enough liquid to properly mash the malt and distribute it's enzymes.

Even if I'm trying to stick to a traditional mash protocol (only enzymes from malt) I still keep my liquid enzymes nearby. It's cheap insurance that I get conversion
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Lawfish
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Re: Another person with Corn Trouble.

Post by Lawfish »

What do you use to convert the starch?
I use Sebstar high-temperature alpha amylase for 1 hour at 180 degrees, then Seb-Amyl beta amylase at 148 degrees for one hour or until the iodine test shows no more starch.
Lawfish

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