Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Production methods from starch to sugars.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
Plc Ryan
Novice
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:08 am
Location: Great white north

Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by Plc Ryan »

Going to post my procedures and process for a batch of whiskey I made recently using some speciality grains. I started my first of 3 stripping runs today but seemed to get a low yield. I just want to check to make sure it is low and I'm not going crazy and if anybody has any answers as to why?

Recipe:
3 packs bread yeast

30 Gallons of water

20 lbs Corn
20 lbs Barley
10 Pounds Rye flakes

5 lbs 2 Row
5 lbs chocolate Rye malt

I mashed in coolers in 4 separate batches adding my malts in at 150 degrees after steeping the grains for at least 2 hours. I mixed all regular grain together and mixed my malts together as well (separately), so each of my four batches would be the same mix of grains. Let cool over night and had a potential alcohol of 6.5%. Started my yeast and pitched it in.

All fermented well for about a week when it slowed down. I tasted it and it was not sweet at all and pretty sour so I squeezed my grains out leaving me with about 26/30 gallons. Left it to clear overnight and started my first stripping run today. I pulled roughly 6 gallons off the top of my fermentor to start. I was getting into sediment that hadn't settled yet plus I wanted to do smaller batches since there is rye in this recipe.

My still is a 13 gallon keg so with 6 gallons I have plenty of head space. Fired up with a couple cool downs to let any potential foam settle out. My run started fine and it didn't puke at all. I pulled a pint for fores (which looking back was a little much) and continued my run smelling and tasting along the way. After about a half hour I pulled a half gallon of keeps and noticed it was starting to smell and taste tailsy. I checked my ABV and it was at about 25%. It seemed a little early to me for it to be that low so I checked my FG of the mash which i hadn't done yet since it tasted good and sour. I got a bit of sediment in my graduated cylinder so I'm sure it was a little off but Fg came in showing about 1% potential alcohol.

Now I'm thinking my ferment could have stalled a little near the end or not quite gone totally dry but I'm also thinking the reading is a little off because of the sediment. I continued my run into deep tails and ended up with a half gallon of keeps plus a pint discarded out of a 6 gallon strip. This is only my third run on my recently upgraded still so I'm not totally used to these bigger runs but to me I think I should have got more out of the run. I threw in a couple more packs of yeast to see if the wort will ferment out any further.

Any input is greatly appreciated.
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 7360
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by HDNB »

chocolate malt doesn't have enzymes and so the two row was your only DP. at 10% of the grain bill it's not enough to convert the starch.
also, you did not mention a starch test - did your OG measure solids of starch, or sugar?
you did not mention an FG either, so maybe sour, but not dry. EDIT: saw the 1%, so unfermentables.

i'd cook the grains for 90+ minutes at 190*+
add more malt to a DP of 30+ overall grain bill
test for starch or use liquid enzymes so you know the job is done.
test the FG.
stir more when cooking and when mashing.
plus consider getting sebflo for rye mashes, it really helps. and the mash finishes drier with it.
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
User avatar
Plc Ryan
Novice
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:08 am
Location: Great white north

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by Plc Ryan »

Thanks for the info! The grains were cooked for two hours and were over 190 for close to an hour of that. I stirred with a paint mixer every half hour. I was worried the chocolate malt didn't have much for enzymes and that's why I added the two two but I guess not having any is where I went downhill.

I don't have any iodine for a starch test, I need to get that along with liquid enzymes. Thanks for the tip about sebflo as well. Also I'm guessing my OG was high because of the sugars still present.

Looks like I'll chalk this up as a learning experience and get what I can out of it. Might not be the 3 litres I had hoped for to fill my barrel but that's alright I have oak sticks around and it's a reason to start another batch.
User avatar
ShineonCrazyDiamond
Global moderator
Posts: 3433
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: Look Up

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Not a tried and true, but I promise you can trust it. This is my chocolate bourbon recipe. If you prefer, you can replace the chocolate wheat with chocolate rye. It has the right proportions, real easy, and lots of that chocolate flavor. Doesn't take much!

Give it a try :thumbup:

Sundae Chocolate Bourbon

SCD
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
User avatar
Plc Ryan
Novice
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:08 am
Location: Great white north

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by Plc Ryan »

I will definitely check out the link thanks for the info! I'll be totally honest I didn't do a lot of research into the grain and that's my own fault big time. I have done enough all grains now I was comfortable with the procedure and threw together a recipe. Should have looked into it a little more. Where I live it's really hard for me to get malts so when I was recently in Winnipeg where there are a few brew stores I loaded up on a bunch of different malts that sounded interesting and then threw a recipe together by the seat of my pants.

Always read kids, always read.
User avatar
MichiganCornhusker
retired
Posts: 4527
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:24 am

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

What, moving away from Froot Loops?

If you are having trouble finding malts get yourself some liquid enzymes and learn the protocol.
They would make this recipe a no-brainer. I get mine from enzymash.biz

Another option would be to up the two row to 10-20 lbs.

Were you using cracked corn? Corn doesn't like to give up its starches without lots of foreplay. Finer grind, more heat, plenty of time, and patience. Just like any other other kind of foreplay.

Love to see the experimenting with specialty malts.
I just read this tonight: "Virtually all human progress has resulted from someone changing, amplifying, or omitting some part of the conventional mix. Most real progress isn't accomplished in great leaps, it is a slow encroachment on ignorance achieved by people who are willing to take a chance"

Carry on and keep at it Toucan Sam :thumbup:
Shouting and shooting, I can't let them catch me...
User avatar
Plc Ryan
Novice
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:08 am
Location: Great white north

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by Plc Ryan »

MichiganCornhusker wrote:What, moving away from Froot Loops?

If you are having trouble finding malts get yourself some liquid enzymes and learn the protocol.
They would make this recipe a no-brainer. I get mine from enzymash.biz

Another option would be to up the two row to 10-20 lbs.

Were you using cracked corn? Corn doesn't like to give up its starches without lots of foreplay. Finer grind, more heat, plenty of time, and patience. Just like any other other kind of foreplay.

Love to see the experimenting with specialty malts.
I just read this tonight: "Virtually all human progress has resulted from someone changing, amplifying, or omitting some part of the conventional mix. Most real progress isn't accomplished in great leaps, it is a slow encroachment on ignorance achieved by people who are willing to take a chance"

Carry on and keep at it Toucan Sam :thumbup:
Not done with the fruit loops by any means just need them to go on sale again. In the meantime more new recipes.

You know I was actually going to buy some liquid enzymes and then ended up in Winnipeg and picked up those malts and thought I was covered for a while. What I should be doing is using both malts and liquids like everyone else. Thanks for the link I'll be ordering those very soon.

I was using cracked corn but I ground it finer and mixed it with my other grains which were also ground. Got pretty good gelatinization of the grains for mashing in a cooler I thought. The barley and rye helped too I'm sure.

You know in some regards that describes my experience in stilling to a T. With the exception of rum I am yet to make the same recipe twice. I read about something new and exciting and different and go for it. And if I can alter the process slightly to see what happens (see fruit loops - shouldn't have cooked them with the grains) then I go for it. It's a lot of fun and I learn a lot along the way. In hind sight and as a note to new members it's probably better to pick a tried and true recipe and hammer it out until you get it right and then expand your learning but for me I read and read until I understood the basics and then started trying new things. Made some bad product, a little bit of great product, and a lot of good product, but it's about the journey and the lessons learned along the way.

By some miracle nothing I have made yet is undrinkable and I am yet to have a stalled ferment. I know it's going to happen but in the mean time I have been enjoying that little victory.

No such thing as a loss only a lesson learned.
User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 7360
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by HDNB »

Plc Ryan wrote: and I am yet to have a stalled ferment.
fak. from your lips...

i'm thing of changing the handle to HDSF. :lolno:
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.
User avatar
Plc Ryan
Novice
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:08 am
Location: Great white north

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by Plc Ryan »

HDNB wrote:
Plc Ryan wrote: and I am yet to have a stalled ferment.
fak. from your lips...

i'm thing of changing the handle to HDSF. :lolno:
I have gotten very lucky over the years in that regard. I am on a well in the summer and our water is a little hard and contains a lot of iron. I have never done a ph test and I have always managed to get good conversion. Probably not great conversion but good, except this time and that's my fault haha.

Not only do I get decent conversion by the seat of my pants but I have also never had a ferment stall on me. I haven't really bothered to check any of these readings because I'm thinking of it is t broke don't fix it...
User avatar
ShineonCrazyDiamond
Global moderator
Posts: 3433
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:14 pm
Location: Look Up

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

And with that, I hear your warranty expiring... :roll:
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
Shine on you crazy diamond."
User avatar
Plc Ryan
Novice
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 5:08 am
Location: Great white north

Re: Chocolate rye recipe seems to have a low yield.

Post by Plc Ryan »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:And with that, I hear your warranty expiring... :roll:
My thoughts as I was writing that actually...
Post Reply