Boiling the wort after lautering

[Moonbeam]

Hi distillers.

I come from a brewing background and so I am quite familiar with mashing and fermentation. However, I am realizing that we are not making beer here and I am trying to adjust as I am learning new things, but please bare with me if I am a bit slow.

I do realize that many of you ferment on the grains but for me that a big change of procedure and it takes some time to get accustomed to. However, if I was to lauter my wort before fermentation should I not boil the wort, as is custom when brewing beer? The boiling of a lautered wort is more than just adding hops, it also sterilizes the wort, it breaks out proteins, it lowers PH and maybe most importantly it gives me a possiblity to concentrate the wort thus giving me a chance to increase the OG. But when I read all the threads here in this forum I don't think I have ever seen anyone boil the wort before fermentation (obviously after cooling it).

There is probably a very good reason for it. Why don't we bother to boil the wort before fermentation? Simply because everyone is fermenting on the grains or are there other reasons?

[Chixter]

I asked that same question a couple of months ago. The short answer is no need to boil wort. If anything it may cause more harm than good by killing off still working enzymes, or so I'm tole. Plus most here ferment right after mashing so there is no point. Now....if you are storing wort for a while not refrigerated, then boiling certainly has it's place. Like this method here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xptvVFoZ_pE&t=499s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . Unnecessary extra step if you ferment right away whether on or off the grain.

[still_stirrin]

I lauter...and boil my wort. Breaking proteins helps the ferment clear better & quicker when done fermenting. But, I'm probably in the minority here. My processes account for this additional step. But...boiling does drive out dissolved oxygen in the wort, so you have to aerate very well when running to the fermenter. But, as a beer brewer, you no doubt know this.
ss

[Kareltje]

There has been a discussion about this subject some time ago and someone came with an article that compared whisky mashes with or without boiling. Point is: by boiling the enzymes are destroyed.
This is good for beer, for there are some starches left which is good for the mouthfeel and by boiling the proteins precipitate easier.
But for whiskey it is not so good: the enzymers go on working at the lower temperature during fermentation, thus delivering more sugar which is then converted into alcohol.
Because most distillers ferment right after brewing, sterilizing is hardly necessary.

Ah, here it is again: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0425.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Also it is not necessary to ferment off the grain or even distill off the grain. All the time, from brewing up and including the still, the enzymes can go on breaking down starch into sugar and the sugar into alcohol.

[Moonbeam]

I asked that same question a couple of months ago. The short answer is no need to boil wort. If anything it may cause more harm than good by killing off still working enzymes, or so I'm tole. Plus most here ferment right after mashing so there is no point. Now....if you are storing wort for a while not refrigerated, then boiling certainly has it's place. Like this method here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xptvVFoZ_pE&t=499s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . Unnecessary extra step if you ferment right away whether on or off the grain.

Excellent! Thanks for this tip. The video was great and such a relief as I am also planning to use my Braumeister from brewing, albeit a 25l size.

[Moonbeam]

There has been a discussion about this subject some time ago and someone came with an article that compared whisky mashes with or without boiling. Point is: by boiling the enzymes are destroyed.
This is good for beer, for there are some starches left which is good for the mouthfeel and by boiling the proteins precipitate easier.
But for whiskey it is not so good: the enzymers go on working at the lower temperature during fermentation, thus delivering more sugar which is then converted into alcohol.
Because most distillers ferment right after brewing, sterilizing is hardly necessary.

Ah, here it is again: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0425.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Also it is not necessary to ferment off the grain or even distill off the grain. All the time, from brewing up and including the still, the enzymes can go on breaking down starch into sugar and the sugar into alcohol.

Thank you! Hmm. Food for thoughts. Never realized the ambition was to make the enzymes work beyond mashing. I thought once the enzymes had done their job, it was time to ferment.I am learning new things here.

[Moonbeam]

I lauter...and boil my wort. Breaking proteins helps the ferment clear better & quicker when done fermenting. But, I'm probably in the minority here. My processes account for this additional step. But...boiling does drive out dissolved oxygen in the wort, so you have to aerate very well when running to the fermenter. But, as a beer brewer, you no doubt know this.
ss

This was my plan of attack, but I am realizing there are many sides to this. Just as you describe it, this is how I would do it. What are your end-results like? Are you happy with the results of your spirits?

[Odin]

If you don't boil and avoid crash cooling, you basically create a more tasty whisky.

Both have to do with enhanced/prolonged enzymatic activity and with allowing a bit of bacteria to survive and - at the cost of some yield - add to taste complexity.

Odin.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

If you don't boil and avoid crash cooling, you basically create a more tasty whisky.

Both have to do with enhanced/prolonged enzymatic activity and with allowing a bit of bacteria to survive and - at the cost of some yield - add to taste complexity.

Odin.

+1

I don't boil after mashing and let the mash come to pitching temp on it's own (18 hrs or so) for a 50 gal mash. I also ferment and strip on the grain. I'm told that my whiskey isn't undrinkable.

[Odin]

Send me a bottle!

Odin.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Send me a bottle!

Odin.

Will do, PM me.

If you get to N. California in your travels, let me know.

[Chixter]

Excellent! Thanks for this tip. The video was great and such a relief as I am also planning to use my Braumeister from brewing, albeit a 25l size.

It appears that you're going to be doing a lot of work using a 25l Braumiester. Capacity kind of low for this game.

[Moonbeam]

Excellent! Thanks for this tip. The video was great and such a relief as I am also planning to use my Braumeister from brewing, albeit a 25l size.

It appears that you're going to be doing a lot of work using a 25l Braumiester. Capacity kind of low for this game.

Yes, small scale is all I've got atm. My alambique only holds 6-8 liters too, so considering that a batch size of 25L is pretty much all I need.

[Moonbeam]

If you don't boil and avoid crash cooling, you basically create a more tasty whisky.

Both have to do with enhanced/prolonged enzymatic activity and with allowing a bit of bacteria to survive and - at the cost of some yield - add to taste complexity.

Odin.

I can understand that the boil could slip off flavors from the wort but please tell me how the enzymatic activity adds to taste complexity and a more tasty whiskey. The enzymes are needed for starch conversion and I assume will not add any flavors by themselves. If the conversion is achieved during the mashing and the starch is converted to sugars, what added value does prolonged enzyme activity give? There is something in this puzzle I am missing.

[frunobulax]

You will get a more "COMPLETE" conversion. Most conversion is done in the first 15 minutes but the enzymes will continue to work and you'll end up with a more fermentable wort,
allowing the yeast to bring the final gravity even lower. We're not looking for the complex flavors that is in beer by stopping conversion and setting the flavor.
Another thing I do which goes against home brewing, and I've mentioned before, is cold water sparging. If you're not gonna boil it, ya might as well bring it closer
to fermentation temp. the sugar is already released so there is no down side.