Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

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Chixter
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Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by Chixter »

Hey Home Gamers!. As of late I have been busy using Jimbos AG T&T recipe. I have done 2 batches of Red Wheat Malt and have 3 gallons aging on oak as I type, sure to be a heavenly drink when matured. I have recently used the same recipe using Rahr 2 row Barley Malt for my grain, making 2 more batches. My bill for each batch as follows:

24# grain, 10 gal water, 1/2 tbs Gypsum. Mash to the recipe protocols only this time I used SEB AMYL towards the end a few hrs before pitching 2 1/2 Tbs Redstar DADY from a starter. My OG was 1.080 & 1.072 respectively (I added some water to the 2nd batch). I fermented on the grain in 20 gal Brute pails with std lids. I placed both in my insulated plywood ferment chamber which is thermostatically controlled to 75f.

It has been 1 week. Today after work I took a peek. Both ferments have a grain cap of about 4" thick. The liquid below the cap still appears active/bubbling. I used a sterile SS probe to determine this. The smell in these fermenters is fantastic...a sweet almost fruity yet pungent aroma. Think of a good nose hit of heads off a run...like ya can get drunk just smelling this stuff. The cap is moist I believe due to the condensate in the barrel. I also used a sterile glass pipette to taste some of the liquid...bitter as original sin it is.

I have searched on the forum but...many different opinions on this. No disrespect to my fellow new comers but I wish to get some feedback from experienced veteran distillers on this. Do I just let this go some more? Should I start taking FG readings soon? Will a big thick cap like this drop when it's done? The Red Wheat mash did not cap up like this...then again the OG was lower, in the 50's. IDK if that matters or not. I've read here that CO2 holds the cap up. I just don't want to *F* this up at this point.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by HDNB »

i think yer already *F'd.

grain cap after 7 days is bad news in my still shack, usually indicates a stall and the few bubbles holding grain up are a bacteria taking over.

i've never had luck restarting, but you could try the usual up the ph, warm it up and yeast bomb it and hope, but what happens to me is another stall another point or two down.

i never read the recipe so i'm not sure where the problem came in...but if i cook too much for too long and don't hit my temps, it's a loser. sebamly is a hi temp too, so unless you were in the temp and Ph range for it, it was a waste.

check the gravity.

Re read: i just saw 2.5tbsp of yeast. i pitch wayyy more than that...maybe not much of a colony in there? if there was little o2 on the pitch, no breeding...maybe a few billion workers short of getting the job done?
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Take an Hydrometer reading, you may well be OK...It tasted bitter and not bad. If the "cap" isn't roused...as in stirred up, the gas that's trapped can hold the grains up for several days. Take a reading and post back as soon as you can.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

kiwi Bruce wrote:Take an Hydrometer reading, you may well be OK...It tasted bitter and not bad. If the "cap" isn't roused...as in stirred up, the gas that's trapped can hold the grains up for several days. Take a reading and post back as soon as you can.
Exactly. It depends on how fine you ground the grains. If they were rough ground, it may be that they have some CO2 in them holding them up. If the wash tastes OK and sour, I would give the mash a gentle stir with a clean paddle to let the grains drop then run the clear beer. But that's me, I strip on the grain with the slop in the thumper. If you don't, then try to strain / press it after stirring it.

My guess is that it is done, but tasting it will tell the tale.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by still_stirrin »

Chixter wrote:...The smell in these fermenters is fantastic...a sweet almost fruity yet pungent aroma. Think of a good nose hit of heads off a run...like ya can get drunk just smelling this stuff...
Probably can get a "buzz" off a deep breath of the fermenter...it's mostly CO2 with hydrated acidic vapors mixed in there. It's indicative of an aggressive ferment. With nearly 50 lb. of grain in a 20 gallon ferment, you've got a big potential, so a week long ferment would be optimistic to be done yet.

So, I would check the gravity...I think you're getting close...but you've got a few more days to go. When it's done (and I mean done), the cap will sink. In the meantime, as long as the cap isn't dry, it should still allow the expiring CO2 to breath. But you may find that when you check the gravity, because of the interruption/disturbance, that the cap will sink...which is OK. I think you're well into the latent phase of fermentation.

Don't get impatient. It'll finish. And it'll be a tasty product when done. Don't panic....time is your friend.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by rubber duck »

After a week that cap should have dropped.

I'm betting your night time temp is dropping and its slowing down your ferment. Is your fermenter sitting on a concrete slab?
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by HDNB »

just want to try to give better info...

i made a 1.08 mash last thursday and pitched 0.5grams of yeast per litre.

That's about 20 grams per your 10 gallons. i think 2.5 tbsp is about 12 grams? so almost twice your pitch rate.

today at 96 hours the grain cap is starting to fall, Temp still at 84* i can see strata starting to develop in the vessel. when it's done the grain is on the bottom, then a white band of yeast, then the clear beer, then any whole grain usually floats around on top.

i'll keep an eye on it and report back when it drops.

posting with RD, if the gravity is still up (like 1.05) heat it up. add a starter of fresh yeast.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by rubber duck »

Ya know HDNB I've seen heated rooms at 85f with the fermenters insulated and there would be a cap on the damn wash all week. Starting gravity was 1.065 and would stall at 1.05. Ended up the concrete floor was a big part of the problem, get it up off the floor and that helps a lot.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by fizzix »

rubber duck wrote:Ya know HDNB I've seen heated rooms at 85f with the fermenters insulated and there would be a cap on the damn wash all week. Starting gravity was 1.065 and would stall at 1.05. Ended up the concrete floor was a big part of the problem, get it up off the floor and that helps a lot.
A while back I read that tip from someone somewhere on here. Maybe from you, rubber duck.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by zapata »

I leave a hydrometer floating in my big washes from the start. They ain't accurate with all the grain and co2, but they are relative, once you give 'em a little spin and bob. Makes it stupid easy to see in 5 seconds if things are progressing or not. If it's lower than yesterday, leave it alone. If it's not, then start thinking about temp correcting the reading, pulling a clear sample, night time temps, ph etc etc.

I've been fooled by lots of little details like when a cap falls, how active a ferment looks or sounds etc etc. But gravity drop is the proof to me.

Heck, this seems like a good place. What's up with the WIDE variations in people using the words bitter and sour? Even some old hands call finished wash "bitter". I don't get it at all. Wash starts out sweet, ends up dry (to me meaning the opposite of sweet) and varying degrees of sour. But always sour. Maybe just a little tart in the case of a nice clean malt wash, or really sour in the case of UJSSM or such. But I never taste bitter. Bitter to me seems like it would need a higher ph than any healthy ferment is going to end at. But seeing as how I've seen old hands use bitter to refer to recipes I know couldn't possibly be basic, are we all just that different in how we taste things that what I call sour, someone else tastes as the opposite, bitter? I've just taken to reading the word bitter as "dry", but I wonder if I tasted this "bitter" would I call it sour? Dollars to donuts it's pH is 5.5 or lower, I can't think of anything that acidic I don't taste as some variation of sour/tart etc. That's not true, blackstrap rum wash might be intense enough I might not object to calling it bitter.

Which brings me to, "I also used a sterile glass pipette to taste some of the liquid...bitter as original sin it is." Does bitter mean the opposite of sweet here? Sounds like to me if it is stalled, it was almost done anyway. Take a gravity reading, but I'd guess you're in fine shape, and near the bitter end. It's gonna be sweet.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by Chixter »

rubber duck wrote: Is your fermenter sitting on a concrete slab?
No RD, I built a fermenting cabinet out of plywood, insulated top, bottom, and sides with 2" DOW foam board. I have a little heater in there as I set my shop temp to 50. My fermenter is set to 75f and the thermometer confirms this. I'm going to do a gravity reading after work today will report back. I tend to agree with Still Stirrin. I thing this is going to be a good mash.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment (Updated)

Post by Chixter »

Update. Day 8
Today I get home from the rock pile take care of the beasts and check my fermenters. Low and behold, both of them have dropped the caps!. Now one I was probin around and whatnot, the other I didn't touch. So we now have scientific proof that talkin about caps falling will bring it about, right?

I got a sample strained into the doobly-do what fer testin gravicity and all. I am down to .014. As one can see by the bubbles in the photo there's still some significant choochin going on. This may be ready to run by Sat or Sunday, I'll keep a check on the numbers. This may easily get down below .010

So there we have it, I was worried for a bit I might be creating some alien life form, but as it turns out, just the beginnins of some good whiskey.

I really appreciate the guidance from you guys here on the forum, I can only attribute my success to the information I have obtained from you. 5 months ago when I read a book on distilling I was telling myself....I can never do this too many variables. Then I found this site. :D
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Good to hear! Glad it'll work out fine...My 2 cents worth, and this is strictly me...In my opinion there is also no need to be super anal about "being sterile" when making whiskey and Bourbon...clean is good, after three days the ABV will be above 4% and there is nothing that can infect and "F" up your mash before you run it...Now if this was Beer, different story. If you need proof of this, just read what the Rum guys put into their ferments...maggot gagging, rotten stinking dunder...also known as "muck" from home-grown muck pots...YUMMY! OK it's an exaggeration, I have a muck-pot and the smell, although different, is not so "unpleasant" My point is, not all infections are bad. There is a lot to be said for allowing the yeast and the bacteria, that naturally inhabit your man-cave / He-shed, to work together. A lot of the character in good whisky...again, My opinion...I feel, comes from this symbiotic relationship.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by HDNB »

mine dropped sometime yesterday, so 5.5 days ish, prolly the difference in the yeast and pitch rate, got me the extra day and a half.

glad it all worked out for you.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by Chixter »

Ya man, Friday PM and a bit o' snow and this stuff is settlin' out. FG = .006. This weekend wifey xmas shoppin with her friend leaves me all alone to strip & spirit almost 20 gallons of this wonderful 9.5% ferment. Gotta get my barrels back in action quick, got another 50# to do. These next ones I'm going to add a little specialty malts. I've been reading about the flavor magic some of y'all been doing with them. Man, this is fun!!! This works out great for me cuz January I have to start a project for a customer that will take much of my shop and almost all of my free time :cry: It will be a few months 'till I'm free to make whiskey again.

But while I'm working I can look at the 18 or so gallons of home made goodness aging away, the fruits of my Fall '17 efforts, and even sample now and again.
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by fizzix »

Chixter wrote:Ya man, Friday PM and a bit o' snow and this stuff is settlin' out. FG = .006. This weekend wifey xmas shoppin with her friend leaves me all alone to strip & spirit almost 20 gallons of this wonderful 9.5% ferment. Gotta get my barrels back in action quick, got another 50# to do. These next ones I'm going to add a little specialty malts. I've been reading about the flavor magic some of y'all been doing with them. Man, this is fun!!! This works out great for me cuz January I have to start a project for a customer that will take much of my shop and almost all of my free time :cry: It will be a few months 'till I'm free to make whiskey again.

But while I'm working I can look at the 18 or so gallons of home made goodness aging away, the fruits of my Fall '17 efforts, and even sample now and again.
Chixter- Nothing like having a day or 2 to yourself to distill an exciting recipe. Nice & peaceful.
Look I know dick about all the specialty malts because I'm just too green. But that honey wheat malt Shineon Crazy Diamond uses in Honey Bear really stood out when I worked with it.
Just a recommendation. I wish you great fun & success on those runs!
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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Well, since I'm here...if I may?

This is my other specialty malt recipe. It is quite unique. Can't made as much chatter, because it's so bold. But it's very good. Thing is, you have to age it. Honey Bear is awesome off the spout. But this is a chocolate bourbon. I recommend making it this time of year, or in spring, and drinking it in the cold, bitter months. Definitely accents books specialty malts.

Everyone likes beer, but not everyone likes stout and porters. This is that whiskey.

Sundae Chocolate Bourbon


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Re: Seeking Experienced Input On Current Ferment

Post by Appalachian spirits »

Did you have temp variations during the ferment?
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