Problem with starch conversion

Production methods from starch to sugars.

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Mynameis905
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Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

I tried to make an all grain mash using 6lbs of flaked rye, 3 1/2 lbs of flaked corn and 1/2 lb of 6 row malted barley (I added the barley at 155F) I let it sit in the cooler for 90 minutes and then emptied it into a pail. I was following a recipe. My SG at that point was 1.020 so I’m guessing I didn’t convert all of the starches. I added sugar to bring the SG up. Will I still have a viable mash when the sugars are eaten or should I throw it out? Still can’t figure out why I wasn’t successful.
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fizzix
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by fizzix »

Some data missing to troubleshoot properly. How much water? what's your process? Did you cook the corn? Why only 1/2lb. of malt?
And then how much sugar? Assuming ~1.5 lbs. of sugar per gallon was added, yes the yeast should perform their magic.
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

Mynameis905 wrote:I tried to make an all grain mash using 6lbs of flaked rye, 3 1/2 lbs of flaked corn and 1/2 lb of 6 row malted barley (I added the barley at 155F) I let it sit in the cooler for 90 minutes and then emptied it into a pail. I was following a recipe. My SG at that point was 1.020 so I’m guessing I didn’t convert all of the starches. I added sugar to bring the SG up. Will I still have a viable mash when the sugars are eaten or should I throw it out? Still can’t figure out why I wasn’t successful.
I don't know whose recipe it was, but I see two big problems. 1) no where near enough malt to do the conversion. 2) I would add the malt at a lower temperature, say 145°F.

I would suggest that you start learning about diastatic power, enzymes, etc. You can also use one of the tried and true recipes until you understand the basics of AG mashing, and have a few good conversions under your belt. Then you can try making your own recipe, or if finding one on the web somewhere, analyze it for problems.
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fizzix
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by fizzix »

A diastatic calculation shows your recipe is at 7.5L
The sheer minimum is 30L for good conversion.
Your 6-row malt should've been 2.5lbs. at least.
Mynameis905
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

I was following the recipe outlined here https://youtu.be/aifziRfZAjE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
If my mash that I ended up with has a lot of starch in it will it still work?
BayouShine
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by BayouShine »

Youtube strikes again...
Mynameis905
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

The guy seems pretty legit and he does an iodine test so he must’ve done something right unless he faked his results.
BayouShine
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by BayouShine »

Just watched the part where he showed his liquid enzymes (8:00 in). Me thinks that's why his converted with such little malt.
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

I don’t think that he actually used them though, or so he said
BayouShine
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by BayouShine »

http://www.mountvernon.org/the-estate-g ... ic-recipe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Have a peek at this. The proportions are a bit different here.
Mynameis905
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:
Mynameis905 wrote:I tried to make an all grain mash using 6lbs of flaked rye, 3 1/2 lbs of flaked corn and 1/2 lb of 6 row malted barley (I added the barley at 155F) I let it sit in the cooler for 90 minutes and then emptied it into a pail. I was following a recipe. My SG at that point was 1.020 so I’m guessing I didn’t convert all of the starches. I added sugar to bring the SG up. Will I still have a viable mash when the sugars are eaten or should I throw it out? Still can’t figure out why I wasn’t successful.
I don't know whose recipe it was, but I see two big problems. 1) no where near enough malt to do the conversion. 2) I would add the malt at a lower temperature, say 145°F.

I would suggest that you start learning about diastatic power, enzymes, etc. You can also use one of the tried and true recipes until you understand the basics of AG mashing, and have a few good conversions under your belt. Then you can try making your own recipe, or if finding one on the web somewhere, analyze it for problems.

Any suggestions as to which all grain tried and true recipes would be decent?
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rgreen2002
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by rgreen2002 »

905..if this is your first run at distilling I would suggest you give a go at the sugar based washes in the T&T section first. Make one a few times and get the hang of distilling and then have a go at the all-grain.

All-Grain adds a lot of variables into the fermentation AND distillation part of the hobby. I would suggest maybe UJSSM as a good first go because it will allow you to use some grain as well as sugar for good results (it's kind of what you're going to end up with now mixing sugar with your grains.)

If you really want to stay with the all-grain then any one out of the T&T will be a good choice. We all have our preferences and I'm sure that you would get several answers to that question:
Mynameis905 wrote:
Any suggestions as to which all grain tried and true recipes would be decent?
Good Luck, Be safe. :mrgreen:
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Mynameis905
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

Do you think that what I’ve ended up with should be distilled or will the unconverted starches get in the way of having a decent distillate?
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Truckinbutch »

Mynameis905 wrote:Do you think that what I’ve ended up with should be distilled or will the unconverted starches get in the way of having a decent distillate?
If you done it : RUN IT ! It might be marvelous or swill .
Either way you will learn from it .
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Mynameis905
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

Hopefully it’s not poisonous lol
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by still_stirrin »

Mynameis905 wrote:Do you think that what I’ve ended up with should be distilled or will the unconverted starches get in the way of having a decent distillate?
If you have a lot of unconverted starch in your wash, it can scorch, especially if you have an internal element. So, I advise to use caution.
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Mynameis905
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

I do have an internal element. I’m guessing the idea would then be to heat up very slowly?
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

Not to mention the heavy rye grain bill. I predict that the finished mash will be pretty thick, inviting a scorch. If you have a thumper, an option would be to steam strip it.
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Truckinbutch »

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:Not to mention the heavy rye grain bill. I predict that the finished mash will be pretty thick, inviting a scorch. If you have a thumper, an option would be to steam strip it.
Good advice , that .
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Truckinbutch »

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:Not to mention the heavy rye grain bill. I predict that the finished mash will be pretty thick, inviting a scorch. If you have a thumper, an option would be to steam strip it.
Good advice , that .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
Mynameis905
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

Well I tried it again using 2 1/2 lbs of 6-row that I added at 145°F left it for 90 minutes and my iodine test was good after that but after rinsing everything off my SG is only 1.040 so I did slightly better than before but maybe not exactly where it should be.
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by BayouShine »

Mynameis905 wrote:Well I tried it again using 2 1/2 lbs of 6-row that I added at 145°F left it for 90 minutes and my iodine test was good after that but after rinsing everything off my SG is only 1.040 so I did slightly better than before but maybe not exactly where it should be.
How much water did you mash with?

If you're going to sparge, you'll need to start with less than your final volume of water and rinse with the remainder. If you mashed with 5gal and rinsed with another gallon or 2, it will dilute your OG.
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by Mynameis905 »

I mashed with probably 22 liters or so. Probably diluted it too much when I sparged. Is it possible to ferment with the grains in the fermenting bucket instead of doing all that rinsing?
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

Mynameis905 wrote:I mashed with probably 22 liters or so. Probably diluted it too much when I sparged. Is it possible to ferment with the grains in the fermenting bucket instead of doing all that rinsing?
Bourbon is traditionally fermented on the grain, and distilled on the grain as well.
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rgreen2002
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Re: Problem with starch conversion

Post by rgreen2002 »

I do all my bourbon runs on the grain as a "brew in a bag" setup. I usually do 70-100 lb of grain at a time and have found it works great. I did have to install a hoist to get the 100 LB of soaking wet grain out of the barrel... :mrgreen:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 92&t=62490

I've never sparged but I do admit I am considering it this year. I would agree with Bayou and split the total volume of water in the mash/sparge by calculating total water needed and not going over that as best as possible.

If you plan on continuing all grains then understanding diastatic power is a must. A good calculator for PPG: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/ ... alculator/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

1.04 isn't THAT bad. I usually shoot for between 1.06-1.08 for all grains and usually end up on the low side of that. The calculator above will help you get into the ballpark.

If your interested: Liquid enzymes here: https://enzymash.biz/index.php?route=common/home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow They are relatively cheap considering the amount of grain they convert and I recommend them highly(work smarter, not harder). With these you don't have to worry about calculating PPG or DP at all....so convenient!
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