My first...Tea urn pot still

[zapata]

Pikey, that's interesting. I often run a 2" x 36" tall riser but on keg or larger boilers and often more power than shown here, and I don't get such high abv's. Granted I don't have the bowl top, but I specifically don't insulate the tops/lids either. My results are always pretty dang close to the pot still calcs....interesting just how different our simple pot stills can be from each other.

[Pikey]

Pikey, that's interesting. I often run a 2" x 36" tall riser but on keg or larger boilers and often more power than shown here, and I don't get such high abv's. Granted I don't have the bowl top, but I specifically don't insulate the tops/lids either. My results are always pretty dang close to the pot still calcs....interesting just how different our simple pot stills can be from each other.

Yes zapata, it is very revealing how different our outputs can be with what they call "Pot stills" - here is the output I get with "feints" from the previous run sloshed back in ! Annoyingly, the bottle of "heads" is not shown in this picture, but will be about the same size as the jar in the previous photo :-

I guess this is why I only do the single or 1.5 runs and find it difficult sometimes to understand why some are so adamant that you need to "doube distil" - and why I can get away with such meagre "ingredients" in my recipes.

[Edit - My column is only 1" copper and when I look at it, I can see a couple of additional reasons why I may be getting a little more "reflux" than most. I'll post pics later, but it's interesting that the three of us who seem to be getting "abnormal" results are all running "Swan Brand" tea urns ! ]

[sphaleron]

Thanks Pikey & Zapata,
How accurate is the "Pot Still Calc" on the parent site? Being a geeky physicist I'd like to study the equations that go into it That "reflux %" parameter doesn't seem to make much difference and certainly doesn't allow the theoretical pot still to output 75% from a 10% wash. Is this the same "passive reflux" that you describe, Pikey?

Pikey,
I'd be very keen to see pics of your setup. I'm intrigued that you've had similar high ABV success with a Swan Tea Urn. How has yours lasted? Any reliability problems with the concealed element?

[Pikey]

Hi sphaleron,

The tea urn is older than yours - it has the old style tap on it. I have 2 issues with it ;

a) the tap has a tendency to drip / leak, especially when it is running, but it's not bad and shutting it properly usually means I lose very little [Edit 1/4 cup maybe ?]
b) The lid is not properly secure Imo - I have an adaption to close it firm which will show on the photos. but I would not trust it without the adaption.

I have no issues at all with the bonded heat elements - over a good few years and many runs including whatever use it had before it was mine, I think the elemnets are pretty much "Bomb proof".

They are cheap enough, so if the elements went down, it would be almost as cheap to buy another as to try to fit an internal element. I would replace the whole thing.

My inclination at the moment is to start another thread as i think the anomaly we have, seems such that it may be important and warrant another thread rather than take this one "off subject". If I do , I shall link to this one and to the link you provided earier.

[Pikey]

Here's the photos I promised :


Tea urn with clamp seal (Barrel clamp) - everyone seems to call them something different and they're quit hard to get on their own. The Clamp is lined with a washing machine hose split lengthways then packed with "Pastry"

Here's the column - I know it doesn't LOOK like a pot, but the reflux valve has never been opened, so it is !

The offset head has a "Dimroth" ? (sp?) condenser wrapped around a 10mm copper tube to create a "Cold finger" as well.

I did intend that it woud be run as a reflux, but I like teh flavoured stuff and could never be bothered to see how high I could get teh abv as so many seem to do - She pulls arund 60% as is and that's just fine with me.

Now I did speak of a couple of distortions which may give some additional added reflux :

firstly the condenser coil in sin copper and in close proximity to the column. That May be providing a little "Cooling"

Then there is that "reflux return" tube, which penetrates about half way into the column. That could be acting a little like a "Cold finger". I'm not saying I get a huge amount of reflux, just that it seems to me that some of the Water droplets may be cooled to a temperature where they condense and fall back.

I have toyed with the idea of wrapping one or two coils of cooling water pipe aroung the top of the column to try to induce exactly that effect, but so far have not done so. Worth a trial perhaps ?

[Pikey]

Please ignore that electrical "Wire" going to the head of the column, This was very early days when I thought you could run a still by temperature and that was my thermostat sensor !

The "wrapping" around teh top of the offset is superfuous as well, as I said this was Very early days and I was a little worried I may get vapour escaping through the open top.

Nowadays there is a little ss scrubby stuffed in there, but I don't really think I need that either.

[Edit - the pastry "Repairs" are just construction joinst deliberately left unsoldered so I can take it apart to clean it. ]

[zapata]

Thats a unique still Pikey! Whats with the upper section above the T that has the thermometer in it? I don't think I've ever seen that on an offset, isnt it just dead space no matter how you run it? Makes it look like a CCVM at first glance.

[Pikey]

Thats a unique still Pikey! Whats with the upper section above the T that has the thermometer in it?

Yes it is, isn't it ?

- That's a place to stick a cork with a thermometer through it mate ! - And bear in mind I wanted to hang my temp sensor in the vapour path at the point where the vapour went across into the "offset" when I was designing it.

I don't think I've ever seen that on an offset, isnt it just dead space no matter how you run it? Makes it look like a CCVM at first glance.

When I made it, There was just me and a mate from "Jock-land" and a bloke I never met, from USA talking in the "back-room" of a forum about something completely different.

My mate made a number of Pot type still prototypes out of all sorts of copper utensils and the USA bloke posted a photo saying "This is a reflux still" He said that if you put some of the condensate back into the column, through one of those tubes, it somehow "magically increased the strength" ! - Seemed a bit wierd to me - but Hey - I'm a learnin' lad so I built that facility into mine ! That is all I knew at the time, but I never did open that reflux valve and it wasn't until years later that I understood how or why it works !

My mate in Scotland managed to get some 2" copper pipe offcuts, but all I had was some 1" copper pipe in the "barn" - so I used that. We talked some about Vapour speeds and mine was declared "too thin" by Scotty. (As far as I know it is even now rejected as too small a diameter by everyone who "Knows" )

The hardest part in my build, was winding that copper condenser tight enough to fit in a 1" pipe (That can't theoretically be done either !) Then I sat in front of the TV every night for well over a week, "Tappin' it with a teaspoon to try getting the SALT out of it - a few grains at a time and catching them in a saucer.

"Power control" was also a huge headache and you can see on the photo - where I've added the power control machanism off an electric cooker - but as we all know - that's a complete waste of time and effort too !

We all were totally convinced that the key to "Good alcohol" was to only distill up to a certain temperature and "Scotty" used to cut his off at 90 dC (He ran Propane) whereas I used a thermostat to switch the Electric on and off with a maximum temp of around 88 dC. Then one day I turned the thermostat up because I didn't think my yield was right from the wine I was making. That was my "Aha" moment. - I tried to tell "Scotty" - but he just wouldn't listen - Then the forum closed through lack of critical mass. So I don't know if he ever progressed or not !
I do know that he discovered this site when we were both in production and posted here a few times before he got flamed to death and stopped coming here. I now suspect he got "Flamed" trying to talk about "temperatures" - but I guess I'll never know.

I ony "Lurked " myself for a number of years after his experience.

Anyway, I know that still is all wrong; the column is too thin, the reflux return needs to be much higher up the column, the condenser cannot be made etc etc - but it just goes on and "Does it" !

And of course it's "My baby" - Anyone with a favourite shotgun or a favourite Fishing rod will know what I mean

That's my main problem, I don't know why or what I accidentally got RIGHT! but clearly I did something right !

I've since acquired a lovely modular setup - 11 gall (Imp) electric boiler with a pot head, together with a nice VM column and Liebig from another member and one of these days - I WILL run them - I promise !

About the same time as I do my first "AG" perhaps with my lovely stainless electric double boiler mash tun !

[sphaleron]

As promised I'd like to provide an update on the numbers from my still.

As some of you may have read in the following post (http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 33&t=68932) my attempt to make Odin's Easy Gin has not turned out well. In short my pot still is no good at making a clean neutral from Birdwatchers, at least for a single spirit run. Although I'd thought I'd made my cuts well the end result was a headache inducing concoction. Anyhow I though I'd provide the numbers for my stripping run and spirit run.

I've now managed to calibrate my dodgy thermometer by measuring the boiling point of water. Should be 100*C by but my thermo shows 106*C, so its a bit off . And as previously observed the still does indeed deliver 73% ABV for the first jar from a 10% wash

Stripping run
------------------
24 litres of 10% wash into boiler
Full power 10 amps
1 hour heat up time
Collected in 350ml jars

Code: Select all

ABV (%)	T indicated (*C)	T actual (*C)
73	92	86
62	95	89
61	96	90
60	96	90
58	96	90
56	97	91
55	97	91
53	98	92
51	98	92
50	99	93
47	99	93
44	100	94
42	100	94
39	101	95
36	101	95
33	102	96
29	102	96
26	102	96
22	103	97
20	103	97

Total collected = 5.3 litres @ 45% ABV

Spirit run
-------------
12 litres of 40% low wines into boiler
Full power 10 amps
25 minutes heat up time
Power reduced to 25%
Collected foreshots in 100ml jars

Code: Select all

ABV (%)	T indicated (*C)	T actual (*C)
86	84	78
86	84	78
85	85	79

Collected rest in 500ml jars, collection rate 500ml every 15 minutes

Code: Select all

ABV (%)	T indicated (*C)	T actual (*C)	Cut?	  Taste/smell
83	86	80	No	Strong ester, pear drops
82	86	80	No	Strong ester, pear drops
81	86	80	No	Ester, prickly on tongue
80	87	81	No	Slight ester, sweet, whisky, no prickle
79	87	81	Yes	Bran, warm, sweet, whiskey, slight prickle
78	88	82	Yes	Bran, warm, sweet, whicsky
77	89	83	Yes	Bran, warm, sweet, whisky
75	89	83	Yes	Bran, warm, sweet, whisky
73	90	84	Yes	Warm, sweet, whisky
70	91	85	Yes	Warm, sweet, whisky
63	94	88	Yes	Slightly prickly, sweet
52	96	90	No	Cement hint, not good
37	98	92	No	Hideous, cement, wet dog

Total collected = 3.5 litres of hearts @ 76% ABV

[Coxey999]

I know this is an old post but so glad I found i!! I have 10 litre Swan like yours than I got for hot water in the brew house (when completed), mash water and hot water for larger batches. As my 50L keg is going to be on hold for some time, and I was given some 35 mm copper I decided that I want to convert my Swan into a mini pot still. I am going to post it as a new thread in the build section, but can I ask, the boil dry cut out is that the one that has the reset on it? about to measure the resistance on the elements and work out how to hook it up to my pwm that is arriving today.