Need advice on first build

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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moosemilk
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Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

My pretty copper has finally arrived and I have cut out the pieces using pintoshines 12gallon template. I would like to start assembling, however I was going to overlap and use soft copper rivets along the seams but no local companies carry them. My dilemma is should I wait for the rivets and make my joins that way, or I was also thinking of using a flat lock seam. Now with rivets it's more holes I have to make sure are soldered well. But since I have the template cut out, the amount I have to use for a flat lock seam isn't much, but is it enough? I am including a pic of how the seam would look using a zipper lighter for size reference. The copper sheet is 16oz. While not much of an overlap, it does feel and appear to be a good hold without even soldering yet. Thanks to any input.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by Bushman »

You forgot to include the image. Mash Rookie built a copper still with rivets if you can find his thread it might mention where he got them.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

I'm trying to get the image. Problem is I'm posting from my phone and the image is too large for the server. Will get shortly, and thanks for the tip, I'll take a look for that thread shortly.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

Finally. Had to get app to resize. Damn this tech era we are in! Makes life hell not easier. I have to send my 8 year old messages on xbox to get her attention lol. But I digress....now that I have this, more pretty copper pics of my progress coming in a few. So excited to have an all copper traditional still taking over my ss stock pot job. Glad I found this forum!
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by T-Pee »

moosemilk wrote:I have to send my 8 year old messages on xbox to get her attention lol.
I found unplugging it works well too. Just sayin' ;)

A rivet job just looks cool, imo.

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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

Pic of template on copper. Heading out to shed soon to work on making the pan tonight. Will post my progress for copper porn lovers (admittedly one of those myself and not ashamed lol)
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by Halfbaked »

COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN COPPER PORN I WANT MORE COPPER PORN!!!!!!

Thanks for posting pics.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

Did a little work tonight forming the pan for the boiler. Wish I could have stayed in the work shed but temps still below freezing at night and ran out of split wood for the stove. Gonna be picking up mapp gas torch tomorrow, annealing with propane torch can be done, but just takes too long for my liking. Pics of progress also. Any tips or constructive criticism from those more experienced always welcome! Loving this so far.
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Nearly completed
Nearly completed
After first round of bending
After first round of bending
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

If somebody would be so kind, i still have not had any feedback on the advice i need regarding the seam. I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't be sufficient, especially after I solder it, but would like to know for sure before I go on and make a pricey mistake. I do like the looks of rivets, but it's more holes to worry about being my first real build, and it's going to take a bit for my order to come in (I plan on using them on the 6 gallon w/ flake stand designed by pintoshine since i have enough copper left over to build that as well). I'd really appreciate input and don't want to be a bother, but like i said, i don't want to find out later i made the wrong choice using a seam that may turn out to be insufficient. Thank you to those taking time to read this, and even more thanks for any advice!
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by Cu pipe »

If it was me , I would do the lock joint, make sure it is wide enough....
Then do the large head rivets with the washers for the back...
They can be had at Amazon, don't worry about the length so much
they can be cut.....The rivets make a plain looking still soooo much better...IMHO
Then solder away......
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more than I speak and notice more than you realize.....
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by Halfbaked »

If it was mine Id put fivets in it but there are prob thousands out there that don't have them in it. Amazon or fleabay will have what you are looking for. I would not solder it and then go back and put rivets in afterwards and heat it back up. If you cant wait I would suspect you could have hundreds and maybe thousands of runs and no problmes. Lock it and use a 4 or 5 % silver(like oatey 29024) and I say you would be ok if you can't wait. If you have work to hold you back order the rivets. We like pics.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by HDNB »

heavy awg copper wire can make rivets, it's so soft it's easy to pound a head into.
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now i drink for evil.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

Thanks so much for the input! I ended up ordering rivets from a local supply company, and they'll be here in about a week, so I'll be patient. In the meantime, I'll make the lyne arm with a flat lock seam. Finished up the pan for the boiler and pan for the cap tonight. Taking my time since this is my first attempt.


They look better irl, the flash makes them appear warped but they are flat and smooth. Impressed with myself lol
They look better irl, the flash makes them appear warped but they are flat and smooth. Impressed with myself lol
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Didn't care much for what I saw when I walked out of my warm work shed. Soon enough I'll have something more than a wood stove to warm myself with
Didn't care much for what I saw when I walked out of my warm work shed. Soon enough I'll have something more than a wood stove to warm myself with
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

HDNB wrote:heavy awg copper wire can make rivets, it's so soft it's easy to pound a head into.

Just saw your post hidden between the larger font sized ones. I'll definitely keep that idea in mind for next time (and I KNOW There is gonna be a next time, building has been a great part of the hobby).

Btw, frozen north as your location, just wondering if you are on my side of the border (Canada). If you don't say, understandable. "Canada" is the proximity I use.
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Re: Need advice on first build

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haha, I guessed Canada just by the "Moosemilk" handle. Present or ex military by chance??
Moosemilk is the CDN version of pantydropper
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by T-Pee »

bellybuster wrote:Moosemilk is the CDN version of pantydropper
Jeez. The things one learns around here.

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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by HDNB »

maybe closer than you think, it looked like your photo when i walked outta the shop last night. bit more white stuff today and tomorrow, but it's looking like a fine Easter weekend in our parts.
looking forward to a nice ham feast on Sunday with the whole family!
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now i drink for evil.
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Re: Need advice on first build

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HDNB wrote:maybe closer than you think, it looked like your photo when i walked outta the shop last night. bit more white stuff today and tomorrow, but it's looking like a fine Easter weekend in our parts.
looking forward to a nice ham feast on Sunday with the whole family!

Yup, sounds like close. 'Tis a small world! Been hell of a winter. At least I had research and now building to keep me busy while hibernating for this cold one we had! Have a great easter weekend!
bellybuster wrote:haha, I guessed Canada just by the "Moosemilk" handle. Present or ex military by chance??
Moosemilk is the CDN version of pantydropper

No military at all, although some close family are.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

Assembled lyne arm using flat lock joint. it worked, good hold, but not as easy as rivets would be, and doesn't look as cool, so I'm waiting for rivets for the rest of fabrication.
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And another ugly day here. Easter bunny is gonna have to steal Santa's sleigh this year?
And another ugly day here. Easter bunny is gonna have to steal Santa's sleigh this year?
Completed except for lip to solder to cap. Bit of bending to do for that
Completed except for lip to solder to cap. Bit of bending to do for that
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by BigSwede »

I'm a fan of copper rivets. Easy to use, and they look cool. If you want to use them, go for it. Don't worry about the rivet holes leaking, with the rivet in there, that joint/hole/rivet sucks up solder like crazy.

I'd do all riveting before soldering.
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

BigSwede wrote:I'm a fan of copper rivets. Easy to use, and they look cool. If you want to use them, go for it. Don't worry about the rivet holes leaking, with the rivet in there, that joint/hole/rivet sucks up solder like crazy.

I'd do all riveting before soldering.

I did end up going with rivets, simply because i did like the appearance of them. It was a little more work than a flat lock would have been IMO, but looks so much cooler. And yes, they have no problems sucking up solder lol. One thing i did find for anybody using copper rivets, you may want to anneal them first. I placed a bunch of them on top of my old wood stove in the shed and put the torch to them to get 'em hot (a deep red hot is sufficient, you don't have to get them glowing hot). A test against one out of the box proved me right, the ones i annealed mashed down so much nicer (just wanted to see how much of a difference, so one of each on some scrap copper pieces). Worth the few extra minutes it takes to heat them up. I did do a flat lock seam on the lyne arm, and that actually uses more solder than using rivets and soldering the seam, so with expensive silver solder, rivets are the way to go.

I'll have more pics in the next few days. The bottom of the boiler is assembled, need to put cape and collar on it to finish off. And the cap with lyne arm completed with a bit of soldering to do. Almost there! Just taking my time, couple hours every other day. I'm already thinking of my second build i'm enjoying this so much! Thanks to all for the advice, and those who post pics of their rigs for the inspiration!

One thing i was wondering. What size tubing and how long should i use for the worm (i am building 12gal according to pintoshines design). Thanks again everyone!
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by T-Pee »

20' of 1/2" should be sufficient. That's kind of a TLAR guess but you can hit the Parent Site Calcs to figure it out for yourself.

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Re: Need advice on first build

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moosemilk wrote: I did end up going with rivets, simply because i did like the appearance of them. It was a little more work than a flat lock would have been IMO, but looks so much cooler. And yes, they have no problems sucking up solder lol. One thing i did find for anybody using copper rivets, you may want to anneal them first.
YES!! Nice. I'm glad you annealed the rivets. Don't know what size you are using, I've been using 1/8" stem x 1/4" long to join 2 coppers about 0.050" thick each, and without annealing, it's hard to get that nice, round shape. I'm kind of a wimp, I actually anneal them twice, once before installation, and after the initial deformation that holds the sheet together, I do a bulk anneal of the installed but not formed rivets. The second anneal is lower temp, torch until you get some blue flashes going as the torch is waved, then immediate quench, although that'll be hard to do with your big setup!
I'll have more pics in the next few days. The bottom of the boiler is assembled, need to put cape and collar on it to finish off. And the cap with lyne arm completed with a bit of soldering to do. Almost there! Just taking my time, couple hours every other day. I'm already thinking of my second build i'm enjoying this so much! Thanks to all for the advice, and those who post pics of their rigs for the inspiration!
Hey, do us a favor and take some pictures of your riveting tools as well. I'll guess I'm not alone in wanting to see the setup. I've been using home-made riveting punches, and they work OK, but I'm sure there are better ways to do it.
One thing i was wondering. What size tubing and how long should i use for the worm (i am building 12gal according to pintoshines design). Thanks again everyone!
Did you try the calculator on the parent site? Most guys are using at least 1/2" OD for a worm, maybe 3/8" will work - I'm not real experienced there.

Good luck!
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by moosemilk »

Thanks for pointing me towards the calculations. Over a year lurking and a few months of being signed up and I am still finding things I missed!

My tools are all very simple. As this was more of a "hobby build" I wanted to construct my first all copper basically the way it would have been done. Not to mention the pride of using all manual tools (with the exception of a drill and modern propane/mapp). I even formed and hammered out the pans for the boiler and cap without using forms like wood circles. I am using soft copper rivets so after the holes are drilled and they are inserted, I placed it on the flat surface of my bench vice and hammered them flat down. Pic attached is my tools. With exception of some galvanized pipe I used to uniformly curve the frustrums (sp?) around. I should have more "copper porn" shortly.

One thing for anybody new to working with sheets of metal as I am (I have experience with copper tubing / pipe and soldering). It makes a world of difference if you "tin" the overlap area before the permanent assembly. Especially with a rivet job and simple overlap seam.
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Re: Need advice on first build

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My first build is complete and just need to do some cleaning, wet test and vinegar then sac run. Already starting a second build but the 6 gal with flake stand for father's day gift. Dunno if he'll use it or just display, but had the extra copper to work with so why not. I will have pics of my completed work, but have to find a good prog to size down pics on my phone (the app I was using went goofy and deleted a bunch of pics from my folder so won't be using that one again. Thanks for all the advice this far and inspiration! Can't wait to post how my runs go and start sharing more experiences on here!
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by BigSwede »

PICS! PICS! Download your pics to a PC, then use Google's Picasa to edit and size, and if you need to make them really small and also low bytes, look for a program called "Easy Thumbnails." It'll shrink anything, to any size, with good quality.
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Re: Need advice on first build

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Here it is, not sure how pic quality will be since it's a new app I haven't used to resize, but I'll figure it out and get the best possible pics soon. Needs a bit of cleaning up. I am getting the hang of soldering sheet now. I figured it would be just like pipe but boy was I wrong lol. Flows the same, but If there is a place where there is a bit more gap it really sucks it up!
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Re: Need advice on first build

Post by BigSwede »

:thumbup: Nice! What a classic beauty. You can be very proud of this build... not many people can still work with sheet in the old-fashioned way. Now you've got to run her!

But your picture is too small! Can you make it say 640 x 480? That's a nice VGA size for posting.
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Re: Need advice on first build

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Better quality pic. She's far from perfect when it comes to appearance, but I like it that way. During the build I had some of those accidental "dings" and decided I liked them, so stopped worrying about it and let a few more happen. It gives it the "used and abused look" like something that had been hauled around. So I am polishing it up once just for the heck of it, then letting the patina go it's course (I'll keep the internal immaculate of course...i don't want tainted hooch). Thanks for the compliments, Swede. Would also like to thank you for your solder tutorial. While I didn't use flattening out on my build, I did use it on some solder for home plumbing repairs...flawless plumbing...hidden behind walls...kinda like keeping the inside of a still clean...the best work is what nobody sees lol.
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Re: Need advice on first build

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Oh, my next build will be aiming at appearance. I will post pics as well. And the current is water tight, just gotta do cleaning run and sac to see how vapor tight it is.
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