first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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jeanto
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first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by jeanto »

Hello guys,

So I build myself a fractionning column from junk copper I found here and there and try to get it super clean.
The copper I scored was dirty ... super dirty, oxydized.
I scrub and scrub again with citric acid and salt to get it looks ok, but is ok, OK?
IMG_3080.jpg
I did 2 run with 6L vinegar 5%, the vinegar was soooo dirty blueish grey and the coppre was full of dirty dripping traces. I scratched and rubbed with a scrubber and then the copper looked super clean again.
Yesterday I run sucessfully 6L of cheap wine. Sucess! 400ml of 94% came out clear and ok smell :) but the inside of the still looked so dirty again (see picture)... some black traces...
2016-12-01-23.43.jpg
Here are my concern:
- when cleaning the bottom of the column after removing the packing, the towel was copper color!
- above the waterline in the copper heater, there are some traces / dripping that are black. Under the water line copper looks like new
- some of my dirty dirty silver-welding look still weird, blackish

Here are my the possible cause:
- I'm too carefull (the ethanol comes out perfectly transparent) and a copper still can oxydize a bit > just move on
- the copper was too dirty > extra cleaning run
- the copper was to dirty and needed to be cleaned better before assembly.... what's next??
- i welded like... a beginner... too much flux, too much welding... resulting in a lot of stuff to be cleaned > extra cleaning run
- the cork seal between the column and the boiler is creating this weird black traces...
- other idea?


Is it normal? Am i trying to be too clean?
How does the inside of your copper still looks like?
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der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by der wo »

First you should get it 100% clean. Then once cleaned it is normal and ok if it gets dark.
For cleaning it you should do a vinegar run. Dilute vinegar 1/1 with water and run the still. You should shut off the cooling a few minutes too (f you distill indoors, open the window...). Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.

Very nice still btw :thumbup:
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der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by der wo »

Cork seal? Cork crumbs with glue? Or massive cork?
If glued crumbs, research here for "everlasting gasket". Cardboard and ptfe tape.
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jeanto
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by jeanto »

der wo wrote:Cork seal? Cork crumbs with glue? Or massive cork?
If glued crumbs, research here for "everlasting gasket". Cardboard and ptfe tape.
Yes, I realize that probably it was glued cork... probably part of the problem. I'll do a ptfe joint.
jeanto
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by jeanto »

der wo wrote:First you should get it 100% clean. Then once cleaned it is normal and ok if it gets dark.
For cleaning it you should do a vinegar run. Dilute vinegar 1/1 with water and run the still. You should shut off the cooling a few minutes too (f you distill indoors, open the window...). Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.

Very nice still btw :thumbup:
Thx :)

So from the picture us see + the clean output do you feel the still is dirty or does it look normal to you?
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der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by der wo »

I don't think it's part of the problem with the dirt.
But better replace it before the vinegar run.

The boiler looks ok. But I don't know, what's in the small pipes of the product outlet. If there is still solder flux or green or blue copper compounds. Follow the cleaning protocol and you will be safe.

The boiler will always look very different depending on what you have distilled. Mashes and washes are acidic and will make the copper shine. Low wines will make the copper look dark and perhaps a bit orange, green or blue. In the vapor path the copper should look darker and darker, but not blue or green.
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by Kegg_jam »

der wo wrote:.... Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.
Not sure how you meant this. It came across a little ambiguous.

Cleaning run is sacrificial. Throw it away or use for shop cleaning.
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Kegg_jam wrote:
der wo wrote:.... Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.
Not sure how you meant this. It came across a little ambiguous.

Cleaning run is sacrificial. Throw it away or use for shop cleaning.
He meant rerun the alcohol from the first sac run, for the next sac run.
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jeanto
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by jeanto »

Yes that was clear to me.

I'm gonna do a re-run.
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der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by der wo »

Yes I meant sacrifical run.
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cranky
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by cranky »

That is a cool looking boiler :thumbup:

To me the copper in the pot looks pretty normal after seasoning, it wouldn't hurt to do another sacrificial run but copper tends to look like that afterwards. It's not only expected it is actually necessary. Personally I always do a water run followed by a sac run immediately after the vinegar run because in my experience even if left for a short time after a vinegar run the copper will begin to corrode and need extra cleaning. As far as the shiny bit below the liquid line, that's just because it had hot acidic liquid in it.

P.S. If you do another sacrificial run Birdwatchers is a lot cheaper than even the cheapest wine.

Edit: Looking at the picture it looks like you really didn't use much wine compared to the size of the boiler, I myself like to do a full, maximum boiler charge for my sacrificial runs, so I think another sac run from a large batch of birdwatchers in in order.
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by rad14701 »

jeanto wrote:I did 2 run with 6L vinegar 5%
That right there was most likely the cause of your problems, as Der Wo pointed out... Get that rig cleaned properly and it should produce some good spirits, without the dark streaking, and it should develop a nice even patina...
jeanto
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by jeanto »

rad14701 wrote:
jeanto wrote:I did 2 run with 6L vinegar 5%
That right there was most likely the cause of your problems, as Der Wo pointed out... Get that rig cleaned properly and it should produce some good spirits, without the dark streaking, and it should develop a nice even patina...

Ok so for me to understand, you are saying my vinegar run was too concentrated and was too corrosive?
So I do an other run:
6L vinegar 5% + 6L water
Rinse with water right away without scrubbing

PS: I must have forgot to tell that during my first vinegar run (6L vinegar), I added 4 soup spoon of dehydratated citric acid :wtf: ... you know, I though maybe it's a dirty still, more acid will clean better... well apparently not...
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der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by der wo »

No. Don't dilute it further. But 6l was not enough for so much dirt probably.
Citric acid will clean your boiler only, because it is non volatile. It is useless for a cleaning run.

Perhaps a part of the problem was your wine. Cheap wine contains many volatile sulfur compounds, which can build copper sulfate in the vapor path. But the second run with the distillate should be cleaner, because the volatile sulfur compunds have build non volatile ones. But also here, perhaps 6l wine was not enough.
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by Deerhunter »

That is one nice looking Boiler! Follow the above comments and you'll be fine.

One thing I did was put a scotch brite pad on a drill extension and ran it up and down the inside of the column. Turned my copper like "NEW".
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cranky
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by cranky »

The big question I have here is, exactly what size is your boiler? The charge needs to be big enough for the still regardless of which run it is. For instance, I have a 15.5 gallon, that's 58 Liters. So my cleaning runs consisted of a 10 gallon water only run, a 10 gallon run of vinegar and water, yes that was 5 gallons vinegar mixed with 5 gallons of water, then another 10 gallon water run followed by a 12 gallon of birdwatchers, all as close together as I could accomplish them so no corrosion could get started. If your boiler is 8-10 liters you are using the right amount, but from the pictures it looks much much bigger. If it is bigger you need to use more of everything to properly clean it.
jeanto
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by jeanto »

It's been a while but here is an udpate.

I did an extra cleaning run 6L vinegar 5% + 6L water.
The still is looking great now. I guess there was just too much dirt for only one vinegar run.

I successfully runned 10L of cheap wine to clean further. What came out at 94% alcohol was perfectly transparent and smelled good.
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Oldvine Zin
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by Oldvine Zin »

Looking Good :thumbup: :thumbup:

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NZChris
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!

Post by NZChris »

That's a nice looking still. It should serve you well.
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