first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
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first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Hello guys,
So I build myself a fractionning column from junk copper I found here and there and try to get it super clean.
The copper I scored was dirty ... super dirty, oxydized.
I scrub and scrub again with citric acid and salt to get it looks ok, but is ok, OK?
I did 2 run with 6L vinegar 5%, the vinegar was soooo dirty blueish grey and the coppre was full of dirty dripping traces. I scratched and rubbed with a scrubber and then the copper looked super clean again.
Yesterday I run sucessfully 6L of cheap wine. Sucess! 400ml of 94% came out clear and ok smell but the inside of the still looked so dirty again (see picture)... some black traces...
Here are my concern:
- when cleaning the bottom of the column after removing the packing, the towel was copper color!
- above the waterline in the copper heater, there are some traces / dripping that are black. Under the water line copper looks like new
- some of my dirty dirty silver-welding look still weird, blackish
Here are my the possible cause:
- I'm too carefull (the ethanol comes out perfectly transparent) and a copper still can oxydize a bit > just move on
- the copper was too dirty > extra cleaning run
- the copper was to dirty and needed to be cleaned better before assembly.... what's next??
- i welded like... a beginner... too much flux, too much welding... resulting in a lot of stuff to be cleaned > extra cleaning run
- the cork seal between the column and the boiler is creating this weird black traces...
- other idea?
Is it normal? Am i trying to be too clean?
How does the inside of your copper still looks like?
So I build myself a fractionning column from junk copper I found here and there and try to get it super clean.
The copper I scored was dirty ... super dirty, oxydized.
I scrub and scrub again with citric acid and salt to get it looks ok, but is ok, OK?
I did 2 run with 6L vinegar 5%, the vinegar was soooo dirty blueish grey and the coppre was full of dirty dripping traces. I scratched and rubbed with a scrubber and then the copper looked super clean again.
Yesterday I run sucessfully 6L of cheap wine. Sucess! 400ml of 94% came out clear and ok smell but the inside of the still looked so dirty again (see picture)... some black traces...
Here are my concern:
- when cleaning the bottom of the column after removing the packing, the towel was copper color!
- above the waterline in the copper heater, there are some traces / dripping that are black. Under the water line copper looks like new
- some of my dirty dirty silver-welding look still weird, blackish
Here are my the possible cause:
- I'm too carefull (the ethanol comes out perfectly transparent) and a copper still can oxydize a bit > just move on
- the copper was too dirty > extra cleaning run
- the copper was to dirty and needed to be cleaned better before assembly.... what's next??
- i welded like... a beginner... too much flux, too much welding... resulting in a lot of stuff to be cleaned > extra cleaning run
- the cork seal between the column and the boiler is creating this weird black traces...
- other idea?
Is it normal? Am i trying to be too clean?
How does the inside of your copper still looks like?
- der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
First you should get it 100% clean. Then once cleaned it is normal and ok if it gets dark.
For cleaning it you should do a vinegar run. Dilute vinegar 1/1 with water and run the still. You should shut off the cooling a few minutes too (f you distill indoors, open the window...). Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.
Very nice still btw
For cleaning it you should do a vinegar run. Dilute vinegar 1/1 with water and run the still. You should shut off the cooling a few minutes too (f you distill indoors, open the window...). Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.
Very nice still btw
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
- der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Cork seal? Cork crumbs with glue? Or massive cork?
If glued crumbs, research here for "everlasting gasket". Cardboard and ptfe tape.
If glued crumbs, research here for "everlasting gasket". Cardboard and ptfe tape.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Yes, I realize that probably it was glued cork... probably part of the problem. I'll do a ptfe joint.der wo wrote:Cork seal? Cork crumbs with glue? Or massive cork?
If glued crumbs, research here for "everlasting gasket". Cardboard and ptfe tape.
Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Thxder wo wrote:First you should get it 100% clean. Then once cleaned it is normal and ok if it gets dark.
For cleaning it you should do a vinegar run. Dilute vinegar 1/1 with water and run the still. You should shut off the cooling a few minutes too (f you distill indoors, open the window...). Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.
Very nice still btw
So from the picture us see + the clean output do you feel the still is dirty or does it look normal to you?
- der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
I don't think it's part of the problem with the dirt.
But better replace it before the vinegar run.
The boiler looks ok. But I don't know, what's in the small pipes of the product outlet. If there is still solder flux or green or blue copper compounds. Follow the cleaning protocol and you will be safe.
The boiler will always look very different depending on what you have distilled. Mashes and washes are acidic and will make the copper shine. Low wines will make the copper look dark and perhaps a bit orange, green or blue. In the vapor path the copper should look darker and darker, but not blue or green.
But better replace it before the vinegar run.
The boiler looks ok. But I don't know, what's in the small pipes of the product outlet. If there is still solder flux or green or blue copper compounds. Follow the cleaning protocol and you will be safe.
The boiler will always look very different depending on what you have distilled. Mashes and washes are acidic and will make the copper shine. Low wines will make the copper look dark and perhaps a bit orange, green or blue. In the vapor path the copper should look darker and darker, but not blue or green.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
- Kegg_jam
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Not sure how you meant this. It came across a little ambiguous.der wo wrote:.... Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.
Cleaning run is sacrificial. Throw it away or use for shop cleaning.
- ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
He meant rerun the alcohol from the first sac run, for the next sac run.Kegg_jam wrote:Not sure how you meant this. It came across a little ambiguous.der wo wrote:.... Then rinse it extensively. Then do a cleaning run with alcohol. You can use the alcohol from your first run IMO.
Cleaning run is sacrificial. Throw it away or use for shop cleaning.
"Come on you stranger, you legend, you martyr, and shine!
You reached for the secret too soon, you cried for the moon.
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Yes that was clear to me.
I'm gonna do a re-run.
I'm gonna do a re-run.
- der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Yes I meant sacrifical run.
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- cranky
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
That is a cool looking boiler
To me the copper in the pot looks pretty normal after seasoning, it wouldn't hurt to do another sacrificial run but copper tends to look like that afterwards. It's not only expected it is actually necessary. Personally I always do a water run followed by a sac run immediately after the vinegar run because in my experience even if left for a short time after a vinegar run the copper will begin to corrode and need extra cleaning. As far as the shiny bit below the liquid line, that's just because it had hot acidic liquid in it.
P.S. If you do another sacrificial run Birdwatchers is a lot cheaper than even the cheapest wine.
Edit: Looking at the picture it looks like you really didn't use much wine compared to the size of the boiler, I myself like to do a full, maximum boiler charge for my sacrificial runs, so I think another sac run from a large batch of birdwatchers in in order.
To me the copper in the pot looks pretty normal after seasoning, it wouldn't hurt to do another sacrificial run but copper tends to look like that afterwards. It's not only expected it is actually necessary. Personally I always do a water run followed by a sac run immediately after the vinegar run because in my experience even if left for a short time after a vinegar run the copper will begin to corrode and need extra cleaning. As far as the shiny bit below the liquid line, that's just because it had hot acidic liquid in it.
P.S. If you do another sacrificial run Birdwatchers is a lot cheaper than even the cheapest wine.
Edit: Looking at the picture it looks like you really didn't use much wine compared to the size of the boiler, I myself like to do a full, maximum boiler charge for my sacrificial runs, so I think another sac run from a large batch of birdwatchers in in order.
Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
That right there was most likely the cause of your problems, as Der Wo pointed out... Get that rig cleaned properly and it should produce some good spirits, without the dark streaking, and it should develop a nice even patina...jeanto wrote:I did 2 run with 6L vinegar 5%
Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
rad14701 wrote:That right there was most likely the cause of your problems, as Der Wo pointed out... Get that rig cleaned properly and it should produce some good spirits, without the dark streaking, and it should develop a nice even patina...jeanto wrote:I did 2 run with 6L vinegar 5%
Ok so for me to understand, you are saying my vinegar run was too concentrated and was too corrosive?
So I do an other run:
6L vinegar 5% + 6L water
Rinse with water right away without scrubbing
PS: I must have forgot to tell that during my first vinegar run (6L vinegar), I added 4 soup spoon of dehydratated citric acid ... you know, I though maybe it's a dirty still, more acid will clean better... well apparently not...
- der wo
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
No. Don't dilute it further. But 6l was not enough for so much dirt probably.
Citric acid will clean your boiler only, because it is non volatile. It is useless for a cleaning run.
Perhaps a part of the problem was your wine. Cheap wine contains many volatile sulfur compounds, which can build copper sulfate in the vapor path. But the second run with the distillate should be cleaner, because the volatile sulfur compunds have build non volatile ones. But also here, perhaps 6l wine was not enough.
Citric acid will clean your boiler only, because it is non volatile. It is useless for a cleaning run.
Perhaps a part of the problem was your wine. Cheap wine contains many volatile sulfur compounds, which can build copper sulfate in the vapor path. But the second run with the distillate should be cleaner, because the volatile sulfur compunds have build non volatile ones. But also here, perhaps 6l wine was not enough.
In this way, imperialism brings catastrophe as a mode of existence back from the periphery of capitalist development to its point of departure. - Rosa Luxemburg
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
That is one nice looking Boiler! Follow the above comments and you'll be fine.
One thing I did was put a scotch brite pad on a drill extension and ran it up and down the inside of the column. Turned my copper like "NEW".
One thing I did was put a scotch brite pad on a drill extension and ran it up and down the inside of the column. Turned my copper like "NEW".
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- cranky
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
The big question I have here is, exactly what size is your boiler? The charge needs to be big enough for the still regardless of which run it is. For instance, I have a 15.5 gallon, that's 58 Liters. So my cleaning runs consisted of a 10 gallon water only run, a 10 gallon run of vinegar and water, yes that was 5 gallons vinegar mixed with 5 gallons of water, then another 10 gallon water run followed by a 12 gallon of birdwatchers, all as close together as I could accomplish them so no corrosion could get started. If your boiler is 8-10 liters you are using the right amount, but from the pictures it looks much much bigger. If it is bigger you need to use more of everything to properly clean it.
Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
It's been a while but here is an udpate.
I did an extra cleaning run 6L vinegar 5% + 6L water.
The still is looking great now. I guess there was just too much dirt for only one vinegar run.
I successfully runned 10L of cheap wine to clean further. What came out at 94% alcohol was perfectly transparent and smelled good.
I did an extra cleaning run 6L vinegar 5% + 6L water.
The still is looking great now. I guess there was just too much dirt for only one vinegar run.
I successfully runned 10L of cheap wine to clean further. What came out at 94% alcohol was perfectly transparent and smelled good.
- Oldvine Zin
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Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
Looking Good
OVZ
OVZ
Re: first sucessfull run but a dirty dirty still!
That's a nice looking still. It should serve you well.