Finley smelling Corn mash

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workpress
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Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by workpress »

Hi all
I have a batch of "Indian head corn mash" on the go,
It is almost done fermenting but there is a funky smell
To it (when the air lock burps) should I strip the mash and see
What happens?

Thanks workpress
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by jb-texshine »

Describe funky... baby shit?vomit?vinegar?
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workpress
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by workpress »

I want to say rotting corn like the bottom of the silo... it is a different smell not pleasant but sour yeast ...
sorry for the lack of description... but my airlock has been on for two weeks and it is burping every 15-20 min.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by Blarney Stoned »

What's finley ?
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by workpress »

Finley should read Funky ( dang combinations of sausage
Fingers and auto correct)
Sorry
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Re: funky smelling Corn mash

Post by workpress »

Hi all again

I removed the air lock and I can say it smells of
Vomit and shit mixed together but not vinegar
is it salvageable or is it a lost wash, or should I run it?

Workpress
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by Blarney Stoned »

workpress wrote:Finley should read Funky ( dang combinations of sausage
Fingers and auto correct)
Sorry
Workpress
Don't have a clue what the hell auto correct is but I get what you're saying.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by still_stirrin »

Blarney Stoned wrote:
workpress wrote:Finley should read Funky ( dang combinations of sausage
Fingers and auto correct)
Sorry
Workpress
Don't have a clue what the hell auto correct is but I get what you're saying.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by Brutal »

If you can stand the smell then run it. If you can't then toss it.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by Truckinbutch »

Run it and then you will be sure . Experience for the next situation .
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by NZChris »

It has a lacto infection. This is a good thing as long as you don't run it until the vomit smell gets converted to something more like pineapple. If you run it too soon, you're stuck with it.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by Truckinbutch »

NZChris wrote:It has a lacto infection. This is a good thing as long as you don't run it until the vomit smell gets converted to something more like pineapple. If you run it too soon, you're stuck with it.
Now that's something I missed . Not a hard thing for me to do given my ignorance .
I've just always racked it into the boiler when I had time to run it .
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by masonsjax »

I clicked to see what finkey is ;)

Depending on what bacterial strain(s) you've got, it might not be worth running. Some act quickly and convert all your sugars (and often residual starches) to acids and other compounds, robbing you of potential ethanol. I ran an overly soured beer I made once just for kicks and basically only got distilled lactic acid. Nothing was worth keeping from that batch. Try it if you like, maybe it'll be your best product ever.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

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Ok well I will wait it out and see if the vomit smell turns to pineapple

Thank you guys for the advice

Workpress
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

workpress wrote:Ok well I will wait it out and see if the vomit smell turns to pineapple.
I guess I'd be more worried about the shit smell. :shock:
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

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NZChris wrote:It has a lacto infection. This is a good thing as long as you don't run it until the vomit smell gets converted to something more like pineapple. If you run it too soon, you're stuck with it.
if it makes you want to puke, i think you mean butyric infection...i have not had one since you gave me the same advice a couple years ago so i have not tried the fix of waiting it out. Butyric is vomit/shit smell.supposed to esterfy to pineapple. i think i read butterscotch too somewhere, but have not proved any of this yet. (other than the vomit smell!)

lacto don't smell that bad, if it's a heavy infection maybe a bit of sour milk...maybe as bad as baby puke. i like to keep it going on my ferments when they have 2-3 days to go...it makes for fine whiskey imho. I try not to leave a lacto too long though, after a couple a weeks it seems to eat a fair amount of booze, the little pisstank bastids.

was the corn finely ground? may be mouldy corn if there was lots of big chunks and whole grains in there...just like a mouldy silo.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by workpress »

Hello HDNB

The corn was ground to A consistency of coarse sand so there are no big chunks in it. Is there anything I can add to it or should I just wait it out? This is proving to be an interesting learning experience.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by HDNB »

if it's lacto it will have a white dusty looking slime on top with big bubbles. best description i have read is "moonscape". just run it when it is done fermenting. it's awesome. there is lots of pictures on the forum, just search lacto.
if it's butyric, i did not see any signs, it just smelled so bad it made me want to puke. I had it twice, first time i distilled it and the puke came over to the product. i put it on oak for almost a year before it started to dissipate. it's now been 3 years and the bit i have left is treasured for blending (about an half ounce per gallon) it makes fantastic complex whiskey. (i got mine on Jimbo's all malt recipe)

the second one i threw out, before I got NZC's advice about waiting for the ferment to reabsorb the off smell/flavour (yes it tastes puke before it undergoes the ester transformation) so... if i get it again, i'm going to wait and see what happens like NZC sez...i'd run it and save it one way or the other though, knowing what i know now about what happens after about 1.5 years on oak.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by HDNB »

ha ha ha.

three paragraphs for me, goose eye would say:

ole boys say
run it
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now i drink for evil.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by NZChris »

Butyric acid isn't an infection. It's the result of an infection. Saccharomyces cerevisiae is reputed to be able to convert Butyric acid to methyl butyrate which has pineapple, apple, flavors if given a few days for that to happen. If the vomit smell is still there a week after the ferment goes dead, you might have a problem.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by workpress »

Thank you for the good information. I will wait amd see if the vomit smell turns to something better lol

Thank you

Workpress
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by masonsjax »

It's actually some strains of brettanomyces that can convert butyric acid to ethyl butyrate, but it can take a lot longer than days and depending on how much of it you've got, might never fully convert. If it's slight, I'd pitch in a variety of brett and see what happens, otherwise, it's a dumper. Here's some more info from a brewing wiki: http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Butyric_Acid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

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NZChris wrote:Butyric acid isn't an infection. It's the result of an infection. Saccharomyces cerevisiae is reputed to be able to convert Butyric acid to methyl butyrate which has pineapple, apple, flavors if given a few days for that to happen. If the vomit smell is still there a week after the ferment goes dead, you might have a problem.
And thats why i always pay attention to your posts NZC! I actually knew that but did not recall all the details to make my post technically correct.
Thanks for that!

the point of my post was a little stinky baby puke sour milk smell (lacto) has really made an improvement on my whiskey and i encourage it.
Butyric acid in a ferment will rize your bile...it's effing awful. I almost puked myself just walking in the door of the shed, 20 feet from the pail.

alcohol itself will also convert the butyric, but takes lots of time, as evidenced by the slow conversion of the gallon of jimbo's all malt has shown. actually had a sommelier guy over yesterday, he has been training on whiskey and he absolutely fell in love with that infected all malt, over all the other samples i gave him. (didn't have the heart to tell him how it ended up being created)
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by NZChris »

I regret not knowing this stuff thirty years ago when I poured my first AG corn likker into the compost. :esad:

One of my UJSSMs has a hint of it and is very nice. It must be well to the back of the cellar, I haven't tasted it for a while.
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workpress
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by workpress »

Wow holy crap the vomit-shit mix smell has changed into something with sweet notes a pineapple hint and stinky cheese.

I am going to distill it in a stripping run and then I want to use the backset for a second generation to create a sour mash.... I just have to look over my notes to see what I need to do :D

I am excited thank you all for your insight and advice

Workpress
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by NZChris »

Because it is a flavored product, keep stripping until the total collection is below 40% rather than stopping high, leaving good flavor in the backset, then adding water to dilute. Some here go below 30%.
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

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Bad news... my second generation is gone it had a slight vomit smell, or so I thought... my wife she thought the dog puked in the kitchen and realised where the vomitus zephyr was coming from and she DUMPED IT oh I am sad :(

sadly I will have to start over

Workpress :(
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by StillerBoy »

workpress wrote:my wife she thought the dog puked in the kitchen and realised where the vomitus zephyr was coming from and she DUMPED IT oh I am sad

Are you still friends.. LOL

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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

Post by Pikey »

That's annoying :(

So how did the first lot turn out ?
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Re: Finley smelling Corn mash

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Yes we are still friends, so I started again... Hopefully this one will not get an infection and smell like vomit. :sick:

Workpress
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