Need Help Building CCVM Still

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RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

artooks wrote:Thank you RedwoodHillBilly

About the CSST, the one that I bought 3/8 OD this is 60" so will I use all of it ? It will be better since it has fittings at both ends, also will this easily go into 2" spool ?
Yes, use it all and get adapters to hose barb connectors. i.e. a (3/8" male flare / 3/8" female NPT) then a (3/8" male NPT / 1/2" hose barb). One of the reasons that I recommended this CSST is that it is easy to connect to.

I fits great into a 2" spool
artooks wrote:I am really wondering how will be the purity of the final product, as of now with my classic still max I get is only 87% and after that it goes down very quickly so with a CCVM will I continuously get high purity 92-95% ? just wondering what will be the difference with a CCVM and normal still ?
With this still run correctly, you will be able to get 95% until you hit the tails, then it will go down fast. This is the way that almost any packed column with reflux works. I'm sure that there are threads here that talk about running reflux stills, finding and reading them is your next homework assignment. :lol:
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by der wo »

RedwoodHillBilly wrote:
der wo wrote:kimbidoous has the thermometer on the horizontal path of the first Tee. RedwoodHB in a second Tee. Both is in the vapor path of the product. Perfect positions.
But it will read the vapor temp only when you collect product unfortunately. A small disadvantage of CCVM and CM stills. If you want to see the temp before collecting, you have to add something like slanted plates and place a thermometer under the first plate to isolate the thermo probe from the cold reflux (Bokakob design).
True, but I don't see a good reason for column vapor temp except perhaps to know when to turn on the water. All that I really want to monitor is the collected vapor temp. If you really wanted to know vapor temp before output, you could add a thermometer in the boiler above the liquid level. In my opinion this just complicates things and has the potential to be distracting. You don't really need any thermometers. Don't over think things, just build it, run it, and learn how it acts. Experience will be your best teacher. You will make mistakes, that's normal, just learn from them.
Yes. It's not neccessary. But it's nice to see the temp falling slowly during the 100% reflux stage. You can see, when it stops falling, so you can see that the abv doesn't increase anymore. And the temperature gives you a hint, how much fores you will have. No big deal. If I had such a still, I wouldn't attach a second thermometer. It was only theoretical information for artooks. But I am used to have this info. I run a LM and have run am LM/VM before.
The vapor temp above the liquid level will tell you only, how much alcohol is left in the boiler. Also not necessary to have.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Thank you very much RedwoodHillBilly I will do my homework :)) But I am really excited to be able to get 95% Alcohol
so in order to understand how this reflux still run should I also check the VM Stills as well, by the way I see that you have
2 big Radiators to cool the water, I am using a large bucket, do I really need very cold water with this CCVM ?
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

artooks wrote:Thank you very much RedwoodHillBilly I will do my homework :)) But I am really excited to be able to get 95% Alcohol
so in order to understand how this reflux still run should I also check the VM Stills as well, by the way I see that you have
2 big Radiators to cool the water, I am using a large bucket, do I really need very cold water with this CCVM ?
You should read about CM as well. They are all similar in how to separate fores/heads/hearts/tails. Things like equalizing the column, takeoff rates, what happens when the tails start coming through, etc. There is much to learn but, like sex, there is only so much you can learn by reading, the real knowledge will come from doing.

I have the coolers so I can use less water, but it doesn't have to be very cold. I like to keep my cooling water output below 130F or so.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Thank you very much RedwoodHillBilly, I will do that by the way, about the flex connector tube in the customer review someone said that
"the size listed is misleading. The actual outside diameter of the corrugated ribs is a size larger than the label indicates. I bought two of the 3/8" coils which measures in at 1/2" OD."
Is it true so if I receive 1/2" will I still be able to fit it inside 2" tube ?

Also the Tube 3/8-Inch OD, and the end fittings are 1/2-Inch FIP x 1/2-Inch MIP x 60-Inch

Therefore if I purchase:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064 ... WBO4JJQFLN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IA ... Q1SWH602IK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

it will do the job can you please confirm.

Thanks
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Today I decided which extensions to buy and calculated the overall height, so up to the end of the tee it is 51.2" and I will add a 6" to the top of the tee which will come to 57.2" in total
this is the max I can fit in my attic. is it good ?


I find this shotgun is this shot gun suitable for my setup ?

http://stilldragon.com/index.php/stainl ... embly.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

This is a 2" Shotgun with a 20" length, I have never used it before so all the alcohol are coming from these small holes and I want to put a parrot at the end so therfore there needs to be a part which goes between the parrot and shotgun ?
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

artooks wrote:Thank you very much RedwoodHillBilly, I will do that by the way, about the flex connector tube in the customer review someone said that
"the size listed is misleading. The actual outside diameter of the corrugated ribs is a size larger than the label indicates. I bought two of the 3/8" coils which measures in at 1/2" OD."
Is it true so if I receive 1/2" will I still be able to fit it inside 2" tube ?

Also the Tube 3/8-Inch OD, and the end fittings are 1/2-Inch FIP x 1/2-Inch MIP x 60-Inch

Therefore if I purchase:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064 ... WBO4JJQFLN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

and

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IA ... Q1SWH602IK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

it will do the job can you please confirm.

Thanks
Yes, the OD is 1/2". Gas line is sized based on ID. I have built exactly what you are trying to build with the parts that I specified. Same with the fittings. The gas line (CSST) has 3/8" female flare fittings on the ends. Either trust me or wait until you get the parts and inspect them for yourself.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by kimbodious »

Homework for Artooks,

read this great guide http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 63&t=15508 - where kiwistiller mentions valve it is a valve between the offtake and the PC.

The valve is not necessary if you follow the CCVM design where you raise and lower the RC coil to control what goes out to the PC

No shotgun and no valve required if you go CCVM.

A CCVM is your cheapest option for modification. If you don't like operating the CCVM then you can look at purchasing valves and shotguns

The following is my report of my first successful run with my CCVM where I describe hiw I lowered and raised the RC to control the offtake. I used the power controller ti change the rate of boiling so that there was a constant level of liqid visible in the sight glass. I did not adjust the cooling from the initial setting... here goes

"Re: Adult's Meccano Set
Postby kimbodious » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:18 pm
Hot weather as I recall, in the mid 30s C; water temperature in the high 20s C
Brought the power up slowly on a spirit run with kale recipe low wines.
Took a guess for position of RC coil.
Sight glass fogged about 105 minutes from power on.
A few drips appeared in the collection vessel; lowered RC coil about 1 cm and drips stopped.
Left the column in that state for nearly an hour until the thermometer at the takeoff registered a slight drop in temperature. (fluid level dropped below sight glass too)
Raised the RC coil about 4 cm until there were two drips per second going in to the collection jar.
Collected 150 mls of "foreshots" before lowering the RC back to the position for total reflux
Left the column in total reflux for 15 minutes
Raised the RC coil (about 10 cm) to the point where there was a faltering stream going in to the collection jar.
Collected 300 mls in 5 labelled jars (heads)
From jar 6 started collecting in roughly 600 ml amounts per labelled jar
Very slight adjustments to power controller to maintain a constant level of fluid partway up the sight glass.
Did not adjust the water supply for cooling from the initial quarter turn of the handle
Measurement of ABV mid-run gave a temperature corrected 95
The thermometer fluctuated +/- 0.6C during the run, probably just the odd breeze
Collected 16 jars of roughly 600 mls each until I noticed the fluid level suddenly dropped below the level of the sight glass
Started collecting in 300 ml amounts but the second jar smelled very strongly of tails
Turned off the power at that point
Two days later I checked my cuts and made the blend
I discarded the first 4 x 300 ml jars as heads and added the fifth to the hearts blend
A total of 9 litres of hearts
The final 2 x 300 ml jars discarded as they were clearly tails
The final analysis showed a temperature corrected 94% ABV for the hearts

I am very pleased with how easy this system is to operate compared to the previous VM and CM stills!"

PS. The thermometer varied so little during this run that it was not important for managing this run. I concentrated instead on rate and quality of the output and maintaining a constant level of fluid visible at the top of the packing (in the sightglass)
Last edited by kimbodious on Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by kimbodious »

I have 2" spool and bought the CSST which was 3/8" ID 1/2" OD. I made it to fit inside the 2" tube by making it into a twist instead of a coil. It does the job fine! There are two yellow zipties. The top ziptie is the marked position for the coil for total refux (when the mark is level with the top of the column). The lower ziptie is roughly the marked position for optimal output rate for hearts. The distance between the marked positions is about 10 cm or 4"

I am not sure there is any more information or advice that I can help you with, best of luck!
image.jpeg
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

kimbodious thank you very much how long is your rc from top to bottom ?
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Want to ask a question about packing the column, well I am using copper mash, copper saddles and raschig rings combined, in the forum I read a lot about lava rock being used and people who is using them getting higher purity,
I do not know if it is to do with the lava rock, but I find it concerning becuase the variability is very wide in lava rock, what do you guys think about it, is my combination enough for a good packing ?
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

For the rc can I just use some copper mash instead of stainless steel scrubbies, does it matter, if it does which brand of stainless steel scrubbies is safe to use ?
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Hi RedwoodHillBilly I see that you have insulated your column in the picture, what is the benefit of insulating the column, what is that insulation material can you give me a link please ?
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Why we are only using CSST to make RC for CCVM type stills can't we buy stainless steel hose and make curles, like they do with the copper ? is there a reason for that ?
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

artooks wrote:Why we are only using CSST to make RC for CCVM type stills can't we buy stainless steel hose and make curles, like they do with the copper ? is there a reason for that ?
Do what you want. It's been done. Ccst is just easy, if you got the skills go on and build something else :thumbup:
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

artooks wrote:Why we are only using CSST to make RC for CCVM type stills can't we buy stainless steel hose and make curles, like they do with the copper ? is there a reason for that ?
CSST being corrugated has more surface area which makes it more efficient, not to mention that it is very easy to form by hand. BTW, the CSST that I specified can be wound in a coil instead of twisting it, and it will fit into a 2" spool. Look at DAD300's thread, this CSST can be made in the same way i.e. single coil over a cold finger.

I know that you don't believe me, but I built exactly what you are trying to build with the parts that I have specified.
Now, just build it :tired:
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by cob »

artooks wrote:Why we are only using CSST to make RC for CCVM type stills can't we buy stainless steel hose and make curles, like they do with the copper ? is there a reason for that ?
do you know the difference between stainless steel hose, and stainless steel tubing ??

both are different than CSST
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by Lyonsie »

This forum is gas.
I thought i was wrong once,
But then i found out i was mistaken.

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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Sorry I meant tubing something like this I mean
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

artooks wrote:Sorry I meant tubing something like this I mean
Like I said, CSST being corrugated has more surface area which makes it more efficient, not to mention that it is very easy to form by hand.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Artooks Believe me you really don't want to go there, making a coil from stainless tube will cause you no end of grief.
Copper tubing or the corrugated stuff is the way to go. :thumbup:
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Thank you very much guys now I understand it why, I was in the belief that to curve it from stainless steel would look and act much better but now I understand why it is much better. by the way this stainless steel it is not 304 food grade probably but it would not matter I suppose ?
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Hi Today I have received the CSST, I played with it a little bit and was wondering if I could roll it as it is always done but from what I see for 2" stools there is a different way to roll it, I wonder if this works like that as well I am afraid that there could be some gap and I could not get %100 reflux due to that what do you guys think, how should I roll it, there is a picture in this thread but was wondering if I could roll it like they do with 3" stools ?
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

artooks wrote:Hi Today I have received the CSST, I played with it a little bit and was wondering if I could roll it as it is always done but from what I see for 2" stools there is a different way to roll it, I wonder if this works like that as well I am afraid that there could be some gap and I could not get %100 reflux due to that what do you guys think, how should I roll it, there is a picture in this thread but was wondering if I could roll it like they do with 3" stools ?
Yes, if you got the CSST that I suggested, you can make a cold finger and a coil around it. In DAD300's thread http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=41579 there are pictures of the way he wound his. I have done the same thing when I built my 2". I would suggest putting a scrubbie in as is shown in the pictures. This will help hold it in by friction and will also help with stopping vapor bypass out of the top of the column.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

Hi,

Yes I have bought the one that you mentioned RedwoodHillBilly up in this page there is kimbodious post where he shows he twisted his CSST only, I want to do a coil, but too afraid that this could break because, 2" is to small to make the turns I guess, but if you have suceeded to make one for 2" then I could do it as well.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by kimbodious »

Artooks, the twist style involving sevseral scrubbers, as in my photo, works; that is why I showed you the photo. You put faith in the forum when you ask your questions you should put trust in the answers provided.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by artooks »

kimbodious, I have faith in the forum and in the answers, please don't get me wrong, it is just that I am trying to find a way to do it a coil, if possible of course, but looks like it will be very challenging, becuase the diameter is quite narrow. Thank you very much again, for your help
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by Pikey »

artooks, here is a coil wound as a pseudo cold finger to fit into a 1" tube. The larger diameter coils just hang around the outside to stop the coil dropping too far.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by kimbodious »

You won't make a coil from 3/8" OD CSST that will be able to slide up and down easily inside a 2" SST spool. You do not need a coil. A twist with scrubbies will work for you.
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Re: Need Help Building CCVM Still

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

kimbodious wrote:You won't make a coil from 3/8" OD CSST that will be able to slide up and down easily inside a 2" SST spool. You do not need a coil. A twist with scrubbies will work for you.
I call BS. I did exactly that, A coil over a cold finger with scrubbies in the coil. It worked a treat and gave me a nice friction fit. BTW, it was 1/2" OD, 3/8" ID

Here are some pictures
1:1 reflux
1:1 reflux
Full reflux
Full reflux
Partial reflux
Partial reflux
Reflux coil
Reflux coil

Edit to add pictures
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