First run on a 25 Litre s/steel reflux

[esxman]

I just want to share my experience of a first distillation run with other novices .
I used to watch my father , with his demijohns full of potato and rice bubbling away, and then it being stilled in a homemade copper kettle and worm, and after reading a lot of the pertinent notes on this forum , realized for the greater part he was winging it ! , mind you this was 60 plus years ago .Now as an ex-pat living in the lovely country called Greece ,surrounded by Raki drinkers and makers , I caught the itch to make my own , because I have in the 12 years here, been given bottles of home-made hooch , some of it undrinkable, and I have always had the feeling I could make a much better job of it! I was going to make a reflux still , but because time is limited , (when you are building your own tool shed, making ice-cream , house maintenance etc etc ) , I resorted to buying a still from Fleabay .I had already priced stainless boilers here , and had the idea if I bought a readymade , I could always elaborate on the column for not much further outlay.
I followed the instructions for a simple sugar wash , I also had a glut of apricots and black mulberries , and started buying 10 litre bottles of spring water, as fermenters , they just needed the caps drilled for bubblers .
I siphoned the ferment off the lees on the sugar wash , and the fruit wash , and ran the still after doing a long hot distilled water run with vinegar, to clean the still out .I packed the still loosely with copper mesh ,slowly got to the magic figure of 78.6 C and I got the first drips , through the parrot I had made , and was recording 85% abv on the first of about 8 numbered 330 milli-litre glass bottles ,the control of the bbq gas is crucial , to keep the abv up, otherwise too much water comes down the line with the spirit .At about 20% , as finely as you backed off the gas you could start to see traces of water in the product, so still was shut down. The clever thing about the still, it has a fusel oil trap , so on the whole 2 runs ,after removing the 50 mill of heads, I didn’t encounter anything off- tasting in the last bottles, and there was about a cup of orange coloured water , that was sitting in the trap.
I have to say the aroma , after I had corrected the proof spirit to 40% was divine ,so we did a blindfold taste test with a commercial brand, we preferred the taste and smell of mine .Bearing in mind this is raw from the still, it can only improve with age .My advice is to start simple , get that right and then progress .I will dig some potatoes from the garden, and maybe try some botanics later , when I get more proficient . esxman

[still_stirrin]

I just want to share my experience....we preferred the taste and smell of mine ...I will dig some potatoes from the garden, and maybe try some botanics later, when I get more proficient.

Good (first) effort. It is indeed reassuring to know you can produce better than the mass produced products. And the great thing is that when you're motivated by the craft and not profit, you can "tweek & tune" to your hearts content. And when your first is "top shelf", it is motivating to improve even more.

Potatoes....a LOT OF WORK for marginal product. I'd suggest trying all grain recipes before venturing to potatoes. If you'd like, search for potatoes here and read about the processes and efforts towards the end product before investing too much to that end.
ss

[skow69]

Well, the sacrificial run is done so the still should be clean now. If you don't know what I mean, then you need to read some more.

What is a fusil oil trap? And what kind of still is it?

[esxman]

skow69
Thanks for the input, one thing I do is a lot of research before I venture into things . Yes that still got washed through with vinegar, lemon juice and elevated temperature distilling plain old water , before ever I put my wine wash through the still , very good advice for novices like myself btw . The still comes from the land of the rising sun , its column is fat ,torpedo shaped , with all triclamps on it , inside is this trap is like a skirt around the inside at the bottom , and the unwanted oils seem to condense and drop into this bottom part, which has a drain valve , I was skeptical that it would achieve its purpose , but after the fruit run there was a good cup of orange colour water, absolutely no trace of alcohol smell there , but again not a pleasant smell ..... esxman

[esxman]

To still_stirrin ,
Thanks for those kind words .Re the potatoes , I think you are right , probably in the same league as rice ... I suppose I remember Dad using a lot of potatoes, but that could have been the Irish in his blood .Right now I have just set up a 10 litre wash of red and white grapes from my vines in the garden .It is tempting to ferment anything and everything , but you are right , I will keep it simple till I can sucessfully replicate good stuff every time . esxman

[Pikey]

....... The still comes from the land of the rising sun , its column is fat ,torpedo shaped , with all triclamps on it , inside is this trap is like a skirt around the inside at the bottom , and the unwanted oils seem to condense and drop into this bottom part, which has a drain valve , I was skeptical that it would achieve its purpose , but after the fruit run there was a good cup of orange colour water, absolutely no trace of alcohol smell there , but again not a pleasant smell ..... esxman

I've never heard of this fusel oil trap. It must be quite a deep skirt if you are getting a cup full out of it, but I would hve thought water would displace the fusel oils, being denser. The orange couour wasn't rust was it ?

Could you explain this part more detail please ? how it fits etc.

[Edit - This one seems like what you describe - is tis it ? I can see a drain off and an upstand at the bottom of the "column" ]

[Edit 2 - oops forgot the link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-Liters-Alc ... Sw-3FZL29l ]

[esxman]

well done Pikey , thats the one , and if you look at the little inset pictures , its actually labelled as such . its like an open cup ,around 2 inches wide at its base and 4 inches high inside the main barrel .it seems the unwanted oils are in the water/ethanol steam , the analogue belly thermometer says about 87 C , whereas the digital meter at the top runs degrees cooler around about 75 degrees , and that seems to be the optimum flow rate .I got this waste from the drain tap after 2 x10 litre runs , I suspect the colour was from the black mulberries , because I had the still packed copper mesh and ceramic rings . I ran another batch of black grape wine , with a similar result ,coloured wash in the drain . I also tried rotating the column 90 degrees ,to make it act more like a pot still , that seems to work ok .The booklet is in Chinese , but I have a .pdf from the supplier in English , and of course Google translate app , can translate the chinese text , but slowly !

[Pikey]

Well what you have there is basically a pot still, which they seem to have tried to get some passive reflux into with that odd shaped column. If you're getting 88% at the beginning, that is working to an extent.

Have you checked whether you're getting the amount of alcohol out, that you're putting in, in the wash ? I'm a bit bothered that if you're only letting the boiiler temp get to 86-87C you could be leaving quite a lot in the pot. Are there any plastic bits inside the still ? This may give them a reason to hold a low temperature and would explain why you are not getting any "Tails" - (We generally accept that to get all of the alcohol out of a boiler, the wash temperature has to be allowed to rise to 100C).

I really can't see any benefit from that "fusel oil trap" unless they rely on the trap filling with condensed water and overflowing back into the boiler, as a bit more "reflux", and the cooling effect of this water on the tube to condense some more although I think that little cup might make a convenient base for a "bubble plate" - what do others think on that one ?

[I'm pretty sure there are no "fusel oils" trapped in it as I said before. but I'd quite like to have one of these to play with and experiment on. ]

[Edit - I'm glad we got to the bottom of that orangy colour tho' ]

[esxman]

Hi Pikey ,
Yes you are right , its not a true 100% reflux in that sense , as the column height is way under , but looking at the formulae for columns , increasing the radius will have a far more profound effect on the column volume than by increasing the height by a similar amount, in fact increasing from 2 inch to 3 inch column , will increase column volume by 2.25 times ,the same effect as raising the column height from 36 inches to 81 inches, near 7 feet .Not my words ! they come from a Rick Morris , owner of Brewhaus . It does look like they have done a bit of homework on the design .I accept what I have is a hybrid , I found that I can run it as a pot still just by changing the attitude of the column , and then I have an enormous space to play about with a botanic basket . In answer to your query , no plastics inside , and the design makes cleaning it a breeze .If you look at what you are getting for a modest entry price , its very good value , you have an accurate set of meters , a steaming tray , pump ,silicone tubes for the pump , and as I said if I wanted more , its triclamp design so I could build my own tower as an add-on . I didnt boil all the alcohol off , probably left under a third in the wash , because the abv seemed to drop like a stone around about 20% , and I will need a much smaller gas burner to properly regulate what comes out,and once shes up to temperature you could almost run it on a candle flame, having said that , air temperature here is in the high 30's. Sometimes when you are offered a Raki here , there are notes of nail polish ,bitter tones,off flavours , and that bland ethanol from the still mimics a top quality taste .Ok , so next fruit wash , I will let the temperature climb to water boiling point and wring the lot out into the 10 bottles and tell you whats in them, as regards taste, and whats in that trap too .
Oh Pikey , if you decide you would like one , they do other sizes , but for me , I will be knee deep in bottles of product ! , maybe I will think of flavouring some , that would be a challenge , we have so many botanics growing here , I need to talk to someone who has gone down this path .... esxman

[Pikey]

Morning esxman, I'm not sure what point Rick Morris is trying to make about column volume and why that is relevant. I have never read any of his books or articles, so I cannot comment on his abilities or knowledge. My own readings do not give any real credence to column volume, although column height can be relevant in reflux terms. However, you don not have a reflux still. It has no dephegmator.

If anyone else understands where the reference to column volume is coming from or Mr Morris is one of our contributors, perhaps you could help me out here ?

You have a pot, which may achieve a little passive reflux but don't get carried away with the idea. It is a pot. The best thing you can put on that gauze at the moment are some pieces of scrap copper, or copper "scrubbies" to help with sulphur compound extraction.

It is not surprising that your abv fell off a cliff, if you were trying to hold any temperature anywhere.

This is called "the magic boiling myth" on this site and here is a google search of the site which I have just done one "Temperature myth" for your information.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?rls=en- ... ature+myth

Here is a comparison of the outputs of a 1 Metre 25mm diameter uninsulated copper column (pot still) the first shows the head temperature held at 85C, the second with the temperature allowed to rise as it wished.

The washes were the same - Simple sour mash. The quantities and starting abv's were the same. Simply holding the temperature at 85C was the only difference and as you say, the abv in the temperature controlled one simply fell of a cliff, so it was stopped.

As you say, you are aware that you left a third of the ethanol (product - drink - spirit, call it what you will), in the pot.

The lack of plastics is great news

because it means that you CAN get that last third out without damage to your still, or contaminating your likker, unlike the owners of some commercial stills. Don't mess with the heat input, get you a steady stream, like a pencil lead, hold your power at that level and let the temperature do what it will. When you get a little more experience, you will be able to tell when you are getting well into tails and may want to turn the heat UP, to get them out quicker, but for now just run it collect in small jars and since you know about cuts, you will know which parts to keep and which to add back to the next run as feints.

That little still will make whiskey, brandy, rum etc without adaption and will struggle with neutral but a neutral wash which you will find in tried and true, will get you close enough to put some botanicals on that gauze and make a version of gin etc.

Lots and lots of reading for you to do yet, "Cranky's spoonfeeding thread" is a great place to start to get some understanding of how it really works.

[Pikey]

Been thinking a little about this esxman. You seem to be happy with what you're getting atm. If you wish to run it the same way next time, fine - but when your abv gets to the "cutoff" you speak of - try whacking the heat up and take some more of the alcohol. Test abv etc and if it is still as low as you fear, put it back into the next run. Dunno - that is one of the little experiments I would try with it

[esxman]

Hi Pikey ,
Thanks for all that good info , you are right , its essentially a pot still . Yesterday I put 13 litres of rice wine thru it,I couldnt get amaylase here, no brewshops ,so I am waiting for stuff from ebay , I did add ginger root to the cooked rice in the hope it would give enough alcohol to be usesful
I would like to post you a little pic of my line of bottles , I dont know if it will work so here goes (img)http://www.dropbox.com/s/in2lqh2gdcecc4 ... e.jpg?dl=0
I ran the still beyond the 20% where I stopped last time , got 2 further bottles of 10% each , and they had a not very pleasing smell , like I imagine old rice would smell like , and so did that trap , but the smell was better ! I turned the wick up , needed 2 cooling water changes 20 US gallons to get the last pencil stream out !
I think I need a much smaller burner, like a little camping stove ,much greater control on the low side , I am getting interested in macerations now ! and then taking the scrubbers out and redistilling the macerated ethanol .Thanks for all your guidance , nice convo with you thanks esxman

[Pikey]

Here's a link to the easiest way to post pictures on here esx

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=66849 - Generally we don't use any form of 3rd party hosting for security reasons

I would like to see your line though