Cleaning/test run

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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NZDamon
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Cleaning/test run

Post by NZDamon »

Did my first alcohol/cleaning run over the weekend, in my 5L copper alembic - as discussed in my Intro post here http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... 27&t=67218" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The cheapo hotplate I acquired for the job seemed to cycle a lot, even on maximum setting. I expected this, and knew I'd likely have to (with the help of my electrician mate) bypass the temp switch and put a controller in its place. NZChris suggested it might still work - so I figured I'd give it a go with a cleaning run.

I diluted 800ml of a 37.2% el cheapo vodka to 3.7L of 8% (something approximating the mash ABV I expect). It took upwards of half an hour to heat up to a gentle boil, even with the helping hand of diluting the vodka with warm tap water.

Because it was just a cleaning/practise run I didn't worry about foreshots (it's already double distilled in any case!). It took about 2 hours from the start of first drops to collect 600ml of 32%, and I continued down to ~15% for total of 750ml of 29%. Seems to me from my reading that it might be a bit slow for a 'stripping' run - and in fact the drips were several a second - but way shy of the recommended 'pencil stream'. And that's almost certainly down to the hot plate cycling, which it did a lot, maybe was on only half the time.

So I'll give the hotplate modification a go, and hopefully that is enough. Otherwise I'll need to return it and find something else.
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NZChris
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZChris »

I don't believe that bypassing the controller will make any difference. The problem is likely to be a switch inside the element that cannot be accessed without wrecking the element.
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Still Life
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by Still Life »

A diffuser plate such as this helped me out. (My still came with one.)
I haven't noticed any cycling, huffing, surging or anything on my hot plate with one.
Juniper
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by Juniper »

At first, I used a cheap hot plate and bypassed the thermostat so it would go full power all the time. However, after a while the casing of the plate itself will get too hot and it might burn/melt if it's plastic. So instead I am using now a second hand industrial hot plate with more power than required and use it on it's lowest setting (about 1666 watts). The plate itself is much bigger so it doesn't overheat. No plastic casings that can burn, just plain and simple.

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der wo
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by der wo »

Generally it is not optimal to run an alembic with a hotplate, because the bottom of the still is never absolute flat. And this will cause the overheating of the hotplate, not the bypassing. I distill with a hotplate, it works, because my still is made from a cooking pot with a thick flat bottom.
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by Juniper »

der wo wrote:Generally it is not optimal to run an alembic with a hotplate, because the bottom of the still is never absolute flat. And this will cause the overheating of the hotplate, not the bypassing. I distill with a hotplate, it works, because my still is made from a cooking pot with a thick flat bottom.

I agree, I managed to solve this by gently denting the bottom from the pot still from the inside with a wooden stick. This caused the bottom to be more spherical. When your still is completely filled, the weight and the slightly spherical shape will result in better contacting with the hot plate.
NZDamon
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZDamon »

NZChris wrote:I don't believe that bypassing the controller will make any difference. The problem is likely to be a switch inside the element that cannot be accessed without wrecking the element.
Well I had a go at bypassing the switch today - and NZChris was correct in that it did not help - after 12mins continuous heating with a stock pot of 5L water, it stopped and did not start again. Even after being left to cool for some time, and then reverted back to its original state. And it was with a very flat bottomed stock pot, so don't think the cycling was entirely the uneven alembic bottom. Alas, back to the drawing board.
Juniper wrote:At first, I used a cheap hot plate and bypassed the thermostat so it would go full power all the time. However, after a while the casing of the plate itself will get too hot and it might burn/melt if it's plastic. So instead I am using now a second hand industrial hot plate with more power than required and use it on it's lowest setting (about 1666 watts). The plate itself is much bigger so it doesn't overheat. No plastic casings that can burn, just plain and simple.
The hot plate I acquired is a stainless steel case, and very few, if any, plastic parts. So I thought it the best option to have a crack at modifying. Ultimately it seems that something in the element/braided wiring has failed. Nevermind!
der wo wrote:Generally it is not optimal to run an alembic with a hotplate, because the bottom of the still is never absolute flat. And this will cause the overheating of the hotplate, not the bypassing. I distill with a hotplate, it works, because my still is made from a cooking pot with a thick flat bottom.
I had read this comment regarding alembics elsewhere - but I felt like a hotplate had a couple of advantages if I could get it to work. Firstly I feel a bit safer without using an open flame around distilled spirits (my setup does keep the spirits at what I consider a safe distance, and contained within a stainless steel sink, but still...). And secondly it avoids the pain of having a gas bottle and burner - where I have it set up there is not a lot of room around one side of one side of the bench, and the other is taken up with my brew kettle, the over-sized burner I use for it, mash tun etc. So I felt the hotplate would be the most economic in a limited area.
Juniper wrote:I agree, I managed to solve this by gently denting the bottom from the pot still from the inside with a wooden stick. This caused the bottom to be more spherical. When your still is completely filled, the weight and the slightly spherical shape will result in better contacting with the hot plate.
I checked the flatness of my alembic with a square, and it isn't completely flat. It seems to be out slightly in a few areas, but less than 1mm from flat. I reckon a bit of gentle persuasion from the inside, against a flat surface might almost get it flat.
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NZChris
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZChris »

Unless you are in a hurry to get up to temperature, 500W is more than enough to run that sized still. Stalk Op Shops and recyclers looking for old school hot plates or anything else that could be adapted. For my 6l still I mostly use a second hand stove top plugged into a controller I have for various tasks.
NZDamon
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZDamon »

Yeah there's a few second hand stores in the area, I'll have a look around and see what I can find.

I take it the integrated-coil type hotplates are preferred to achieve an even-heating surface? That would negate the need for a diffuser plate?

I've been looking at options on AliExpress, and for anything with sufficient area for my alembic base (160mm) the only options are exposed-coil types plates like these
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... ae2bhNjl7v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I take it those would be better used with a diffuser to even out the heating - especially in a thin walled (0.9mm) copper alembic?
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by Truckinbutch »

I have no experience with electric heating elements . I just want to salute you for your analyitical approach to a problem And a willingness to weigh advice given .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
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NZChris
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZChris »

Any modern solid plate is likely to have a bimetal over temp protection switch built into it, halving the maximum Watts available if it trips. As long as that is enough, the plate is still useable.

I doubt a diffuser is necessary. The charge will look after the still until you run it dry.
NZDamon
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZDamon »

Not having much luck finding old hot plates in second hand stores. And now I have a 20L mash waiting to be distilled. Worst case I use my brewing burner.

Any thoughts on whether this would suffice? Might be a case of suck it and see... https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... ae2bA7HItg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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NZChris
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZChris »

I've never used one. If it does work, you will still need a controller of some kind. Have you got one?

With a controller, your Whare House hot plate might not cycle if it doesn't trip it's cutout, but you won't know until you try it. I bought a 4000W 220V AC SCR Motor Speed Controller from ebay and it works well for me.
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by Antler24 »

If I were running something that small I'd buy a $20 controller from eBay, a $10 electric range replacement burner, a $10 extension cord and a shitty metal bowl or small pot.

Cut the bottom off the bowl/pot to match the bracket on the electric element, wire it up and done. You'd probably find everything other than the controller at a metal recycling place.
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get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there
NZDamon
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZDamon »

No, don't have a controller yet, that will be step 2.
NZChris wrote:I bought a 4000W 220V AC SCR Motor Speed Controller from ebay and it works well for me.
I assume you mean one of these? http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-AC2 ... SwuxFY053X" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

OR If I'm feeling lazy... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Voltage-Regu ... 0005.m1851" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow this one doesn't even require wiring.

Unfortunately I must have nuked the warehouse hotplate when I modified it - even after I reverted it to its original state, it did not run at all. Thank you warehouse for your money back guarantee.
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NZChris
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Re: Cleaning/test run

Post by NZChris »

Whichever.
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