...Bad Vodka/Neutral Review

[Still Life]

I've a buddy who really likes his vodka.
Mine, not so much.
(I had asked for brutal honesty)

"I taste the 'source'. It's not grain, but I can't put my finger on it."
He's right.

He was referring to my single (CM) refluxed, triple pot-stilled Birdwatcher's.

Looks like all my jars are going back into the boiler.
I think I got lazy --not refluxing all the way through, and guessing a triple pot would compensate.

This is good.
I need a break from a year-and-a-half of ferments, and a good concentration on my distilling methods.

The challenge is on.

[Swedish Pride]

I need a friend like that
I'm currently getting the wife to test all my booze and she isn't in to likker, but she test it all anyways, bless her heart

[der wo]

You have to hit the 95% all the time for vodka. Possible with a CM, but labor intense.
And most vodkas are charcoal filtered. A non charcoal filtered vodka will always taste different from the vodka your buddy likes probably.

[Still Life]

You have to hit the 95% all the time for vodka. Possible with a CM, but labor intense.
And most vodkas are charcoal filtered. A non charcoal filtered vodka will always taste different from the vodka your buddy likes probably.

Good advice as usual, der wo.
The first reflux I remember being 93% ---
I'm going to push this and reach for 95%.
Time to get a stainless charcoal filter system, too.

[der wo]

I am waiting for the first "you don't need charcoal for a good neutral" post...

[Swedish Pride]

you don't need charcoal for good neutral

[der wo]

Thanks SP, you are welcome.
For what are you waiting now that I post? A discourse about "need" and "can"?

[Swedish Pride]

I've no idea, just didn't want to leave you hanging.
Never done neutral, only done Vodka.
I have a 3rd plate and a packed column to add to my current rig though, I might be back to argue the neutralness of the drink after i get to give that a run out

[ShineonCrazyDiamond]

Der woo is absolutely on point. I'm not going to say you NEED charcoal for a good vodka, but it sure is the only way in my experience to get a true neutral vodka.

I have used tomato paste ferments before, and I taste it. I have used baking soda, and tasted it. I'm willing to bet it was the tomato that he tasted.

IMHO, a nice sipping vodka with a little grain finish, oat being an exemplary example, is way better than a shallow neutral one, anyways. But if you are looking to match what your buddy is expecting, ya gotta run it through 3ft of charcoal. And you might even throw a dash of heads in. After all, I have tasted straight neutral hearts filtered through charcoal, and I swear to you as the first drink of the day, it was @$&$@! water. I never would have known it was alcohol.

In my CCVM, my neutral beast, when I'm running low wines even my nasty tails come out at 96.5%. I am suuuper conservative on cuts ( so much so that I now cut off the still when making whiskey, cause I can't bring my self to loosen the purse strings when blending whiskey). I don't even look at a jar of heads when blending vodka. Tight hearts cut for me. I don't filter my vodka through charcoal, because as I said water like neutral is not my style. But straight hearts, at 96% all the way through, with no real taste, is still sweet. Ethanol flavor is sweet. And even that people might say it taste not like vodka because so. I would have to run the flavorless, sweet vodka through charcoal to get that 'normal' vodka quality.

And probably some heads.

Don't re run it yet. Put it through some charcoal and give it back to him. See what he thinks. You can always re run it after you test it.

And as always, find some heads for it

[Still Life]

Der woo is absolutely on point.... Don't re run it yet. Put it through some charcoal and give it back to him. See what he thinks. You can always re run it after you test it. And as always, find some heads for it

I've hit the Good Advice Jackpot on this post.
Thanks boys.

[cranky]

I have always tasted the tomato on Birdwatchers. It's nice to see I am not the only one. I prefer something like All-Bran for my neutral because if there is a slight flavor it tends to be grainy as opposed to tomatoy. The others are probably right in that your friend would prefer filtered.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I prefer something like All-Bran for my neutral because if there is a slight flavor it tends to be grainy as opposed to tomatoy.

Agreed, when I did sugar washes, I preferred the All-Bran. Now, if I want an azeo product, I just enzyme convert an all corn AG. Corn is cheaper than sugar, and I prefer the taste. To each their own.

[HDNB]

I prefer something like All-Bran for my neutral because if there is a slight flavor it tends to be grainy as opposed to tomatoy.

Agreed, when I did sugar washes, I preferred the All-Bran. Now, if I want an azeo product, I just enzyme convert an all corn AG. Corn is cheaper than sugar, and I prefer the taste. To each their own.

ditto. I used to do corn to neutral but i switched to all wheat. it's too neutral. tastes like water until you exhale and then you get a sense of booze. I think i'm going to switch back to corn.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I prefer something like All-Bran for my neutral because if there is a slight flavor it tends to be grainy as opposed to tomatoy.

Agreed, when I did sugar washes, I preferred the All-Bran. Now, if I want an azeo product, I just enzyme convert an all corn AG. Corn is cheaper than sugar, and I prefer the taste. To each their own.

ditto. I used to do corn to neutral but i switched to all wheat. it's too neutral. tastes like water until you exhale and then you get a sense of booze. I think i'm going to switch back to corn.

Yup, it's all a matter of taste. Besides, a bag of corn here is $15 and a bag of wheat is $21. For a "neutral" I'm cheap. I use the azeo product in things that cover much of the taste anyways i.e. SPD, apple pie, etc.

[Still Life]

I respectfully disagree with the tomato carry over.
Reflux and carbon polishing should leave this "clean".
Awaiting my stainless filter system to prove it.

[Swedish Pride]

for what it's worth , I'm with HDNB, Wheat leaves almost no flavour, i did a vodka with 2 plates.
Might be worth a whirl whilst you whait for the filter Still Life?

[Still Life]

for what it's worth , I'm with HDNB, Wheat leaves almost no flavour, i did a vodka with 2 plates.
Might be worth a whirl whilst you whait for the filter Still Life?

Thanks for the tip.

[bitter]

Yak makes a really nice wheat vodka. He uses some 100% wheat whiskey to back mix in. Very tasty!

B

[googe]

Tpw is crap IMO, if he's a grain based vod drinker, there's no way to please him, accept for a grain based vod lol. I've tasted grain based vod but never made it myself, nice taste. My vod/neutral drinks are veg based, kale, beetroot leaf. Very clean and crisp. Best advice I can offer is, keep abv of wash down, 8% wash is good. you don't get volume but you get good end product. I've found, low abv washes end up nicer than high abv washes that are cleaned after distilling. We all have different tastes though.

[cranky]

It seems many people don't taste tomato in TPW but then others do, some say it has a tequila like flavor which is something a vodka drinker might find undesirable. What Googe said was what I was getting to, I think most commercial vodkas are grain based. Maybe carbon polishing is enough or maybe you should find out what vodkas he likes and what he likes about them, then find out what they are made of and taste them. Maybe you can pick out what the specific flavors are.

[Pikey]

Let your mate do the research and then show him how to ferment and let him use your kit to make his own

Life's too short to buy approval from everybody - unless there's a legover in it

[Still Life]

Nah. I'm accepting the challenge of a better vodka.
Balls up, pip pip and all that sort of rot. (That's how you Brits talk, right? lol)

I'm up for the fight.

Hey, you wouldn't know a good wheat vodka, would ya ..?

[still_stirrin]

Hey, you wouldn't know a good wheat vodka, would ya ..?

Grey Goose is an all wheat vodka.

From their website:
EACH BATCH OF GREY GOOSE® VODKA BEGINS WITH SOFT WINTER WHEAT GROWN ON FARMS IN AND AROUND THE FERTILE PICARDY REGION OF NORTHERN FRANCE. GREY GOOSE MAÎTRE DE CHAI FRANÇOIS THIBAULT INSISTS ON USING ONLY THE HIGHEST-GRADE WHEAT—THE SAME WHEAT USED IN THE FINEST FRENCH BREADS AND PASTRIES.

AFTER THE WHEAT GRAIN IS FERMENTED AND DISTILLED INTO A HIGH-PROOF SPIRIT, IT TRAVELS SOUTH TO GENSAC-LA-PALLUE, IN THE COGNAC ARRONDISSEMENT (REGION), FRANCE, WHERE IT IS BLENDED WITH THE REMARKABLY PRISTINE SPRING WATER FOUND THERE.

[Still Life]

Thank you, SS.

[Swedish Pride]

i used 100% unmalted wheat from the feedstore, worked great, hardly any flavour but mouthfeel of grain is there

[Pikey]

Nah. I'm accepting the challenge of a better vodka.
Balls up, pip pip and all that sort of rot. (That's how you Brits talk, right? lol)

I'm up for the fight.

Hey, you wouldn't know a good wheat vodka, would ya ..?

Sorry - don't even drink the stuff & OH likes her white rum. I have a lovely VM still but no reason to turn it on

[masonsjax]

Choice of yeast and how you treat it seems to have an effect as well. Choose a neutral ale yeast or a bread yeast and keep it near the low end of it's temperature range and it will come out very clean. Letting temps rise to the top of the range has IME created some flavors that carry over and is (I believe) to blame for the tequila-like flavors that sometimes occur.