Feints

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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jonnys_spirit
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Feints

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Hi! I have run three or four different one off washes through my still and performed the cuts and blending, oaking, etc... I love this hobby and am so appreciative of all the knowledge collected and shared here :)

Feints -

I am wondering what folks do with their feints.. Do you mix them all together from different runs? ie; brandy's, whiskies and whisky's, bourbons, grappa's, etc, etc...

I run a 13gallon milk can potstill with 3" potstill column.. It's pretty straight forward.

I wouldn't mind making some vodka but had envisioned something made out of a single grain and distilled multiple times... Pure'ish...

Part of me is down with saving feints of like batches for inclusion on further runs... I can see me doing scotches, brandies, bourbons fairly regularly...

The number of storage vessels gets out of hand quick though!

Or should I just mix all the left over heads and tails into carboys and run it once I get about 10 gallons?

What do folks do and how do the different feints products and approaches turn out?

Cheers and thanks!
-j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Still Life
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Re: Feints

Post by Still Life »

Quite a few members save 'em up and run 'em.
I tried it once and just didn't get the yield of good stuff to make it worth my doing again.
But that's me, and only once. I cut a little loose and don't leave much feints of any quality, anyway.
Your mileage may vary.

You'll get more responses, I'm sure.
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Re: Feints

Post by RobA »

I am new to this but 5 of us bought a still and have been running various recipes (whiskey, brandy, rum, sugar wash). We saved the feints from most of these and wound up with 3+ gallons of ~120 proof to dilute and run through a reflux column for a neutral spirit. Hopefully we'll be doing this in the next week or so.
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Re: Feints

Post by OtisT »

Some folks save up feints until they have enough for an all feints rum run.

Another use......
Recently I have been doing experiments to increase the complexity of my products by creating more/new esters. One method is to save feints by batch and re-introducing them in my next batch of the same product. Ex. Save feints from making Bourbon. On your next batch of Bourbon, mix these old Bourbon feints with an equal amount of Bourbon backset from the first strip run and let it set while you do other strips ( chemical reaction between acids and alcohols to create esters). Add his feints/backset mix to your Bourbon low wines for the spirit run.

I do the same process with my rum and love the results for both.
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Boda Getta
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Re: Feints

Post by Boda Getta »

Feints are Gold! I am used feints in several ways with good results. Note that the quality of your feints will depend on your cuts. Some of my best product has been the result of saving feints fro multiple runs and running a mixed feints run. In I am running several batches of the same grain bill I have used the feints of the previous run in the spirit run of the next batch. It's all good but use them.

Good luck
BG
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Re: Feints

Post by Worm_Drippinz »

Some of the best drop I've ever made came from fronts.

Save it!

I have mixed different batches together with good results, don't be scared to experiment!
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Re: Feints

Post by amdamgraham »

RobA wrote:I am new to this but 5 of us bought a still and have been running various recipes (whiskey, brandy, rum, sugar wash). We saved the feints from most of these and wound up with 3+ gallons of ~120 proof to dilute and run through a reflux column for a neutral spirit. Hopefully we'll be doing this in the next week or so.
How is it possible for you to have 120 proof feints? Are you mixing a large portion of your heads and tails to get this or just by chance have you measured your tails (feints) and confused 60 proof with 60 percent?
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Re: Feints

Post by RobA »

amdamgraham wrote:How is it possible for you to have 120 proof feints? Are you mixing a large portion of your heads and tails to get this or just by chance have you measured your tails (feints) and confused 60 proof with 60 percent?
I didn't explain what we've done so far very well. The 3+ gallons is a mixture of feints from 7 or 8 runs as well as stripping 2 sugar washes. Some of the feints were added to 1 of the sugar washes and others were added after stripping the sugar washes. The resulting 3+ gallons we're going to run through a reflux column is ~120 proof.
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Re: Feints

Post by ElCubanazo »

OtisT wrote:Some folks save up feints until they have enough for an all feints rum run.

Another use......
Recently I have been doing experiments to increase the complexity of my products by creating more/new esters. One method is to save feints by batch and re-introducing them in my next batch of the same product. Ex. Save feints from making Bourbon. On your next batch of Bourbon, mix these old Bourbon feints with an equal amount of Bourbon backset from the first strip run and let it set while you do other strips ( chemical reaction between acids and alcohols to create esters). Add his feints/backset mix to your Bourbon low wines for the spirit run.

I do the same process with my rum and love the results for both.
When you do this how long do you let the feints/dunder combo sit before adding it to the spirit run? What kind of flavors does it add?
-El Cubanazo

¡Viva Cuba Libre!
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Re: Feints

Post by OtisT »

ElCubanazo wrote:When you do this how long do you let the feints/dunder combo sit before adding it to the spirit run? What kind of flavors does it add?
Re: time
I typically let them sit for one to two weeks. That said, I don't know (yet) what the benefits of time are on the dunder/feints mix. Some have commented on this subject saying he notices the formation of new esters soon after mixing. I've just not done the testing yet to see if time is beneficial, so I let mine set a short while just to be safe.

I have noticed a difference in smells (esters?) based on the age of the dunder. To me, fresh has a better floral nose, though the aged stuff has a lot more complexity going on. I've not done enough with fresh to tell any difference to the final product.

Re: flavors.
I'm terrible at describing flavors. I can say I notice a more complex and deeper smell/flavor profile when using feints, especially in the heads. Seems like there are more distinct smells/flavors throughout the batch, and they are richer. I noticed a significant difference in the product (white) once I tried this and I've not gone back yet.

One place I have noticed a difference in the ester profile when doing cuts. To me, there seem to be more distinct transitions, especially in the heads. I like to us a lot of small jars for collection of heads and bottoms, so I can identify the transitions.

Most of my batches using feints/dunder/backset are still aging, so I can't speak to what it does to final product. What I've tasted so far is delicious.
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Re: Feints

Post by ElCubanazo »

OtisT wrote:
ElCubanazo wrote:When you do this how long do you let the feints/dunder combo sit before adding it to the spirit run? What kind of flavors does it add?
Re: time
I typically let them sit for one to two weeks. That said, I don't know (yet) what the benefits of time are on the dunder/feints mix. Some have commented on this subject saying he notices the formation of new esters soon after mixing. I've just not done the testing yet to see if time is beneficial, so I let mine set a short while just to be safe.

I have noticed a difference in smells (esters?) based on the age of the dunder. To me, fresh has a better floral nose, though the aged stuff has a lot more complexity going on. I've not done enough with fresh to tell any difference to the final product.

Re: flavors.
I'm terrible at describing flavors. I can say I notice a more complex and deeper smell/flavor profile when using feints, especially in the heads. Seems like there are more distinct smells/flavors throughout the batch, and they are richer. I noticed a significant difference in the product (white) once I tried this and I've not gone back yet.

One place I have noticed a difference in the ester profile when doing cuts. To me, there seem to be more distinct transitions, especially in the heads. I like to us a lot of small jars for collection of heads and bottoms, so I can identify the transitions.

Most of my batches using feints/dunder/backset are still aging, so I can't speak to what it does to final product. What I've tasted so far is delicious.
I'm trying to make a more robust, whiskey style/type rum. One with the punch of florals/heads that a Kentucky style rye has. Sounds like this might be great.

I'm also trying the dunder infection from DerWo. I think both might be great
-El Cubanazo

¡Viva Cuba Libre!
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Re: Feints

Post by OtisT »

ElCubanazo wrote:I'm trying to make a more robust, whiskey style/type rum. One with the punch of florals/heads that a Kentucky style rye has. Sounds like this might be great.

I'm also trying the dunder infection from DerWo. I think both might be great
Stick with der wo. He knows his infections. :-)

I have been playing with a rum recipe all summer that may interest you. Like you, I wanted a rum with a head like whiskey, so I have been using my Bourbon byproducts as the base for a rum. Noting new, just my version, and I call it "Bourbrum" because it mixes Bourbon and Rum recipes. ( I've not tried with rye, just Bourbon grain bills.). I do get a lot of grain notes in my final product. First, save Bourbon spent grains, backset from first strip, and all feints ( minus fores). Add molasses and sugar to spent grains for a rum wash. Use 20% Bourbon backset in your rum wash, and adjust ph to ferment. Add equal parts Bourbon backset and Bourbon feints and set aside (an Ester Orgy). Strip your wash. Add feints/backset mix to low wines for spirit run. I have been compressing and collecting foreshots with reflux, then running a slow pot distillation to collect heads, hearts, tails. Use lots of small jars for your heads-hearts and hearts-tails transition to isolate and secrecy the notes you want in your cut. My final cut is smaller, as a percentage of the total run volume, than a run w/o feints. Be sure you are making cuts by nose/taste, and not some percentage or typical volume measures.
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Re: Feints

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Wow! Really cool information here! I'll be saving some feints and backset / dunder now and experimenting even more!

Cheers!
j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Feints

Post by ElCubanazo »

Yeah definitely great to know that little feints + dunder trick!

Planning on putting half my feints towards that and the other half towards a reflux run for a neutral.
-El Cubanazo

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Re: Feints

Post by ElCubanazo »

OtisT wrote:
ElCubanazo wrote:When you do this how long do you let the feints/dunder combo sit before adding it to the spirit run? What kind of flavors does it add?
Re: time
I typically let them sit for one to two weeks. That said, I don't know (yet) what the benefits of time are on the dunder/feints mix. Some have commented on this subject saying he notices the formation of new esters soon after mixing. I've just not done the testing yet to see if time is beneficial, so I let mine set a short while just to be safe.

I have noticed a difference in smells (esters?) based on the age of the dunder. To me, fresh has a better floral nose, though the aged stuff has a lot more complexity going on. I've not done enough with fresh to tell any difference to the final product.

Re: flavors.
I'm terrible at describing flavors. I can say I notice a more complex and deeper smell/flavor profile when using feints, especially in the heads. Seems like there are more distinct smells/flavors throughout the batch, and they are richer. I noticed a significant difference in the product (white) once I tried this and I've not gone back yet.

One place I have noticed a difference in the ester profile when doing cuts. To me, there seem to be more distinct transitions, especially in the heads. I like to us a lot of small jars for collection of heads and bottoms, so I can identify the transitions.

Most of my batches using feints/dunder/backset are still aging, so I can't speak to what it does to final product. What I've tasted so far is delicious.
Sorry all, hate to revive an old thread but just wanted to ask something of Otis on this.

Otis I'm wondering if you know if using low wines instead feints for mixing with dunder makes any difference?

I've mixed some feints with infected dunder and a couple weeks later the product is quite interesting. Haven't had time to try it with low wines but was curious if you knew the differences!
-El Cubanazo

¡Viva Cuba Libre!
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jon1163
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Re: Feints

Post by jon1163 »

I would point you to this great discussion...

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18823
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Re: Feints

Post by jon1163 »

Oh, I forgot to add... I have read that when you are about to run your feints in your next stripping run that you want to pull the feints out from under your fusils. Put the feints in the fridge to settle them siphon them from the bottom leaving your fusils in the jug.
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Re: Feints

Post by OtisT »

ElCubanazo wrote:Otis I'm wondering if you know if using low wines instead feints for mixing with dunder makes any difference?

I've mixed some feints with infected dunder and a couple weeks later the product is quite interesting. Haven't had time to try it with low wines but was curious if you knew the differences!
Short answer: I don't know for sure. I am guessing it will have little to no noticeable difference on end results, but I have hopes of being proven wrong some day.

There is not a lot of research in this area, so there is a lot to test/prove out. Here is my non-proven theory explaining why I choose mixing Dunder with Feints as opposed to mixing Dunder with Low Wines. Esterfication takes place between fats/acids and alcohols. There are many different alcohol molecule types and each type may produce a different ester when mixed with the same fats/acids. I know my feints have a higher concentration of non-ethenol molecules, so figured this could produce a larger quantity of unique esters. What I don't yet understand is the proper dilutions and ratios, nor do I understand what temps and times are required to have an impact. It's all phoey for sure, but I do it anyway. ;-)
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Re: Feints

Post by Shine0n »

Seems like you're taking off there otis :thumbup:

After my corn washes finish up I may do what you're talking about.

Glad to see you moving right along.

And you're right, Der wo know his stuff and that's how I learned. Now I wish I could describe things the way he does and I'd be more complete.

Shine0n
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Re: Feints

Post by OtisT »

Shine0n wrote:....... And you're right, Der wo know his stuff and that's how I learned. Now I wish I could describe things the way he does and I'd be more complete.

Shine0n
Dear Wo converts his thought from German to English and he writes like a poet. Maybe you should try converting your thoughts to German and see what happens? Next thing you know, you’ll be telling us that your brandy has a sent of savory wet Teppichboden.

Otis
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