First All Grain Experience and Observations

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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Chixter
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First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by Chixter »

I just finished running an all grain wash I started last week.
Grain bill: 4#each flaked corn, flaked rye
2# flaked barley (Bobs Red Mill)
1# 6 row malted barley
I put the 1st 3 grains in a brew bag and steeped in 180f water in a 10 gal beverage cooler. 1/2tsp gypsum was added, stirred around every 20 minutes or so. 2 1/2 hrs later, when temp reduced to 155 I did an iodine test. Jet black. I added the 6 row and stirred occasionally, covered tightly and went to sleep. The next morning temp was still over 100f, did iodine test = clear. I used a wringer to squeeze and some hot water to sparge, and strained into my fermenter 8 gal pail for a 6 gallon wash. OG was 1.052. At 90f I added 2 tbs DADY which I started in warm water and 1/2 tsp sugar. It fermented 7 days at 75f. The lock didn't bubble as actively as my UJSM does, but did bubble for about 5 days. Today I measured FG was 1.012 or around 5.3%ABV potential. It had a nice pungent alcohol type smell and tasted tart, but comparing it to UJSM these were diminished (My UJSM FG is usually 10% or a little more) The wash racked into my boiler yielded 5 1/2 gal. Being that I didn't expect much I ran it slow with my electric band heater..2-4 drops/sec on avg. I collected 1/2 pt. measures in pint jars after getting rid of the first 1/2 pint, from 73% down to 25%ABV. I have 8 jars, 1/2 pint each airing with coffee filters now. The last jar smells off and is not as clear as the others. I'll see how they are after a day or 2. My guess is I'll wind up with about a quart jar after blending, which I will oak age. I like the taste of the front and middle runs. This does not have that "candy" type taste that even the UJSM does. I don't like sugar, I don't eat sweet things. I'm hoping that after a spirit run of the UJSM low wines I have been saving, that "candy taste" will go away. All grain seems more to my taste, but I have to figure out which one to try. What is a good ABV potential to shoot for using AG? I got the flaked grain to avoid the cooking but maybe that is not as effective. I see many of you guys go with 20# + grain bills and run big boilers. Maybe my set up is a little small for an AG operation...
When I was a boy, I prayed for a bicycle. I soon learned G~d doesn't work like this so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.
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bilgriss
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by bilgriss »

Hi Chixter

It sounds like you've met with some success with your description of the process, but I think you need to compare a few of the all grain "Tried and True" recipes to your own to guage how it compares.

1.052 is a normal starting gravity, but a little on the low end. If it were me, and you are happy with your basic recipe, I'd add another pound or two of malted barley. That would potentially speed conversion a little, push up your gravity a little, and add a little more "maltiness" to the overall recipe, which I personally like.
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by Chixter »

bilgriss wrote:1.052 is a normal starting gravity, but a little on the low end.
Thanx Bilgriss, thats what I'm getting at. It seems to me that if you want to get 7-9% potential in a 6 gal. wash, it will require 12-15# of grain. From my observations here, it seems that most here use sugar in their recipes in some form. Don't get me wrong, I blended out a 1qt. jar of my AG experiment, it is now aging with a charred oak stick, already starting to color, smells and tastes quite good now. I'm confident I will enjoy it. It came at a cost of time and about $25 for the grains I bought. (1 had to be shipped). I could buy a 1.75 litre of VO for 25 bucks without any time invested. I will have to wait until I have a few more stripped runs of USMJ, I'm on gen 5 now. Then I will have about 4 - 5 gallons of low wines to spirit run and age. I don't know if it is the corn or the sugar that I'm not happy with. Some like sweet in their whiskey. I don't. But many experienced here rave about carefully run and cut UJSM so I'm hoping it will get much better. Even the hearts of the stripping runs are too sweet for my taste. I'm reading through the T&T recipes here, my next AG experiment will model off one of those. This is an awesome place for information.
When I was a boy, I prayed for a bicycle. I soon learned G~d doesn't work like this so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by Antler24 »

Chixter wrote:
bilgriss wrote:1.052 is a normal starting gravity, but a little on the low end.
Thanx Bilgriss, thats what I'm getting at. It seems to me that if you want to get 7-9% potential in a 6 gal. wash, it will require 12-15# of grain. From my observations here, it seems that most here use sugar in their recipes in some form. Don't get me wrong, I blended out a 1qt. jar of my AG experiment, it is now aging with a charred oak stick, already starting to color, smells and tastes quite good now. I'm confident I will enjoy it. It came at a cost of time and about $25 for the grains I bought. (1 had to be shipped). I could buy a 1.75 litre of VO for 25 bucks without any time invested. I will have to wait until I have a few more stripped runs of USMJ, I'm on gen 5 now. Then I will have about 4 - 5 gallons of low wines to spirit run and age. I don't know if it is the corn or the sugar that I'm not happy with. Some like sweet in their whiskey. I don't. But many experienced here rave about carefully run and cut UJSM so I'm hoping it will get much better. Even the hearts of the stripping runs are too sweet for my taste. I'm reading through the T&T recipes here, my next AG experiment will model off one of those. This is an awesome place for information.
Understand where your coming from cost wise. Grain around here is well over $2/lb for malted barley and $3/lb for wheat and rye. That being said though, even if it cost more per bottle to make vs buy, I'd still make it. I really enjoy it.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by TDick »

I am a NOOB _ :mrgreen: - so I am very interested in following your progress.
GOOD LUCK.

One question is that you used 11 # grain, but wasn't sure how much water. I know you ended up with 6 gallons of wash.
My understanding is rule of thumb 3# grain per gallon of water.
Some folks advocate adding water "up to" 1.08 - 1.09. I'm not sure I'm smart enough for that.

Only other thought is volume of your mash. I only have a 5 gallon pot with thumper & coil. But I've learned that it takes the same amount of effort to make a 15 - 20 gallon wash as it does a 5-10 gallon batch. You mentioned high grain costs so maybe that's a factor. Here 55 # of corn, wheat or barley is $12.00 - $17.00

Good Luck & Cheers
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by bilgriss »

16-18 pounds of grain in about 8 gallons of water mashed and then drained gives me around 6 gallons to ferment at 1.060-1.065. There's some variance there, impacted by what grains you use, how you use them, and what you are making. Ultimately you get what you get, but after a while you'll get a sense of generally what you need to do to get in the ballpark.

Higher gravity ferments come with their own problems and will change the nature of your product negatively if you don't have a really good fermentation protocol. I've learned from beer brewing that the right combination of temperatures, yeast pitch rates, nutrients and mashing regimen can expand what ferments nicely. But I recommend doing enough tried and true type ferments before playing around a lot with your procedure, so that you understand how it's impacted by changes. Following the scientific method will help you dial it in faster.
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by yakattack »

3lbs per gallon is really pushing the top.end of a mash. Especially for someone who is just getting a hang of mashing.

2 lbs per gallon is the recommended. At 2 lbs per gallon you should hit 1.055 to 1.07 pretty easily.

As for the cost of grain, if.you can buy raw wheat or barley you can malt it yourself. Its stupid easy. If an idiot like myself can do it than anyone can.
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by Chixter »

Bamaberry wrote:My understanding is rule of thumb 3# grain per gallon of water.
Some folks advocate adding water "up to" 1.08 - 1.09.
Yea that rule of thumb is a tad high imho. If you look through the T&T recopies listed on this site, most are in the 1.4-2#/gal range. If I have gleaned anything from my first AG experiment it is AG can be tricky. As Bilgriss and others have posted there are more variables present in distilling ethanol from grains than from sugars. In a recipe like UJSSM or the Sweetfeed recipe here, the grains used have a very minor role in alcohol production, the are a flavoring adjunct. With AG one has to successfully convert the starches present in the grain to ferment-able sugars. This process of conversion is the key. My advise to you and others new to this and wanting to test the waters of AG is to choose one of the T&T recipes. Scale it to the size of your operation BUT FOLLOW IT PRECISELY. Don't add variations at least on your first try. No matter what you pick, start with a baseline as a reference. Yes grains are more expensive than sugar, fortunately it isn't a matter of $$ for me. I am intrigued by this whole hobby and my nature just pushes me to produce something that 1. I like 2. Is just as good or better than something an equivalent amount of money spent in a store. Hopefully your getting familiar with your equipment, have you tried any sugar based stuff like UJSSM yet? I will be running gen 5 of this in a day or so. After gen 6 Ill have appx 5 gal of low wines averaging 50% after they are combined. Ill dilute to under 40% and do a nice slow spirit run. I am interested in AG because I have an aversion to the taste of sugar. Knob Creek has a promotion out - a combo pack 2 375ml bottles of their small batch reserve Bourbon and Rye. I sampled both. Their bourbon is a high% corn (65-70). I didn't like it. Too sweet. The rye was outstanding. This is an example of my taste preferences and why I do not believe sugar based washes are going to work for me.
When I was a boy, I prayed for a bicycle. I soon learned G~d doesn't work like this so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.
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Still Life
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by Still Life »

Chixter, I was gonna recommend Booner's Casual Corn to you until I read where even corn is too sweet for you.

Now, rye. I invite you to sometime try my rye recipe.
(Read the whole thread to where I add roasted barley to it.)
Not a Tried & True, but it is very good if I say so myself.

Nevertheless. Good luck to you in your all-grain adventures.
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Re: First All Grain Experience and Observations

Post by Chixter »

Thank SL. This looks very interesting to me. I will read it over carefully when I get out of work later. I'm sure I will have a couple of questions for you but this sounds like something I would like to try
When I was a boy, I prayed for a bicycle. I soon learned G~d doesn't work like this so I stole a bike and prayed for forgiveness.
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