NChooch's Bourbon Run

Many like to post about a first successful ferment (or first all grain mash), or first still built/bought or first good run of the still. Tell us about all of these great times here.
Pics are VERY welcome, we drool over pretty copper 8)

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liqrlkr
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NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by liqrlkr »

Several months ago I did my first NChooch's Bourbon All Grain. I got one quart of good stuff. I religiously moved it from refrigerator to hot (Florida) shed every day for about six weeks. It turned out to be the very best sipping bourbon ever. I shared it with a couple of friends who agreed that it was the best. Since the first batch I have done about eight more and because of the number of them I have not moved them from the fridge to the shed as I did the first one. They are currently in the shed and now the nights are much cooler than the days I will leave them in there to "age". The question I have is the amount of Good alcohol that you are getting out of one run of the recipe. After the fermenting stops and I remove the grain I have about four and a half gallons of liquid to put in my pot still. I run the still very slow and I usually end up with 12 8 ounce containers after I throw the first 8 ounces. Out of the final 3 quarts I end up with 1 quart of 85 proof that gets oaked and stored and the rest is saved for later use in the still. These are the proofs of the 12 8 ounce containers. 110,110, 100, 100, 95, 90,85, 85, 70, 65,50,40. Are these figures about what others are getting or are they a bit low? I have done a couple of sugar heads and the Welch's concentrate that produced much higher proofs but can not compare to NChooch's recipe. The AG is much more work but worth every minute of it.
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by ShineRunner »

Can’t really help you on what to keep out of a run. Most here do double runs, but even then, a quart of keep is probably about right for a 5 gallon ferment. Especially if your keep cut is aging around 45%.

SR
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by liqrlkr »

Thanks, I just wanted to be sure I was some where in the ballpark of what I should expect to keep.
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by Chixter »

Why not do 2 or 3 ferments at a time, combine them for a stripping run, then spirit run the low wines? Or even if ya do 1 at a time, strip it save it and when you have enough low wines saved, combine all for a spirit run. I run an 8 gal. pot. 2 runs gives a nicer product IMHO.
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liqrlkr
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by liqrlkr »

Are you getting a higher proof when you do a stripping run and then a spirit run or is it a better quality? I have no problem doing the two runs but it seems there are two schools of thought on this site about whether to do the two runs or just one slow run. I guess the best way for me to know is to try the two runs and see what I get. I have probably eight or so quarts of low wines saved up should I add them to my next 4.5 gallon AG and run them together?
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still_stirrin
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by still_stirrin »

You didn't say what the %ABV was in your mash... (original gravity - final gravity) x 130 = potential ABV.

That will give you an idea of the potential alcohol you can recover in the boiler. Usually, it is slightly less because you'll leave a little behind in the backset, but it should be a close approximate.

So, you multiply the potential %ABV by the volume of wash and it'll give you the "potential alcohol" at a theoretically pure 100%ABV, which of course you won't collect. From a potstill, if you can collect down to where the distillate averages 30%ABV, chances are you've done very well at stripping the alcohol out.

This collection would be called "low wines" for running through the potstill a 2nd time (the "spirit run"). Now, if you are doing a "one & done" run, like you did...collecting in a series of jars, the proof off still will start around 110-120 and decline steadily from there...like you observed. If you were to dump all the jars together, you would probably have roughly the same volume and average proof as if you'd have collected in a stripping run.

Using these rough calculations will help you estimate what you can expect in your final "keeper" cut. I usually keep approximately 1/3 of the potential alcohol as good hearts, and for a one and done, the keeper proof of 80-90 would be considered successful.

But using a potstill only, I would recommend fermenting enough wash for 3 boiler charges and strip those to 30%ABV average, collecting the spirit as low wines. Then do a final spirit run with the collected low wines. You'll get a little higher proof off still the 2nd distillation...good enough to put your collected hearts "on wood" at 125-130 proof. It'll improve the quality of spirit you're treated with in the end (after appropriately aging).

In summary, what you collected is good for a "one & done" considering the size of your ferment and the potstill.
ss
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liqrlkr
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by liqrlkr »

Thanks SS that helps a lot. I have done tons of reading but reading and understanding is sometimes a problem. The way you explained it clears up a lot. I will try it that way and see what I get. Thanks Again.
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by Chixter »

+1 for what still_stirrin said.

I started this hobby committing myself to 2 runs in my pot still. Takes more time and that part of us that says "why am I doing this twice" but it is well worth the effort. I did 6 generations of UJSSM this way. Stripped 'em all than did a nice SLOW spirit run (watch your heat and your outflow). The end result, with decent cuts is SMOOTH. Try a run of the same recipe this way and compare the taste to some of your (hopefully) saved one and done. I think you will find a big difference in smoothness and taste.
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by jon1163 »

If you use a thumper on a pot still though do you still strip and spirit? A thumper is like 1.5 distillations if I remember right.
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by Chixter »

jon1163 wrote:If you use a thumper on a pot still though do you still strip and spirit?
Reading here reveals that some do and some don't. I don't have a thumper. Will I ever add one? Maybe. But I ferment small batches (5-6 gal) and have a smaller size boiler (8 gal). I find it very easy to fire up the propane burner, within 40 minutes I'm running and I just let it go until my collection is about 30%ABV. About 2 hrs total time. No cuts, no tasting (except discarding fores) and into a jug. This jug can sit around I don't have to worry about it going bad. Then when I have enough for 4+ gal. of low wines, I combine dilute to 40% and put on the electric element for a careful spirit run. I think if I had more capacity and was running 15-20 gals of wash at a time, I would consider a thumper setup and run slower for a 1 and done, but thats a moot point for me.
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by NcHooch »

liqrlkr wrote: I run the still very slow and I usually end up with 12 8 ounce containers after I throw the first 8 ounces. Out of the final 3 quarts I end up with 1 quart of 85 proof that gets oaked and stored and the rest is saved for later use in the still. These are the proofs of the 12 8 ounce containers. 110,110, 100, 100, 95, 90,85, 85, 70, 65,50,40. Are these figures about what others are getting or are they a bit low? I have done a couple of sugar heads and the Welch's concentrate that produced much higher proofs but can not compare to NChooch's recipe. The AG is much more work but worth every minute of it.
If you're ending up with 12 8oz containers, the first is prolly pretty headsy, those last 2 are tails ...maybe even the last 3.
so use the rest for oaking.

Having said that , there's a guide to cuts 101 that talks about using the 8oz jars and lettin them air out overnight.
24 hours later, go back and smell em all. jar 1 and maybe 2 may have a solvent smell . Jars 10, 11, 12 will smell like tails,
the rest of the jars should be neutral. you can use a little bit of tails to add some complexity , but you need to give it time to develop.

Also, it does help if you age at 120 proof, but you need to do a spirit run to get to that proof with a pot still.
good luck
NChooch
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by Antler24 »

Chixter wrote:
jon1163 wrote:If you use a thumper on a pot still though do you still strip and spirit?
Reading here reveals that some do and some don't. I don't have a thumper. Will I ever add one? Maybe. But I ferment small batches (5-6 gal) and have a smaller size boiler (8 gal). I find it very easy to fire up the propane burner, within 40 minutes I'm running and I just let it go until my collection is about 30%ABV. About 2 hrs total time. No cuts, no tasting (except discarding fores) and into a jug. This jug can sit around I don't have to worry about it going bad. Then when I have enough for 4+ gal. of low wines, I combine dilute to 40% and put on the electric element for a careful spirit run. I think if I had more capacity and was running 15-20 gals of wash at a time, I would consider a thumper setup and run slower for a 1 and done, but thats a moot point for me.
I used to strip then spirit run, now use a thumper for a 1 and done run. I've only ran ujsm with it so far and am glad I added the thumper. Proof is plenty high for oak aging, and at this point ( a month old maybe) I think it's better than my double run. Some of the heart jars smelled like corn flavoured water, very smooth.
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get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by Jimy Dee »

Liqrlkr

I wish I twigged this from the beginning - do 2 things to get onto the next level and don't procrastinate, namely
A. Do a strip AND spirit run. You will not regret it. The spirit is superior with this system - period.
B. When doing your STRIP run (NOT the spirit run) crank up the heat so the capacity of your condenser is maxed out (or a little under it). This is a significant time saving exercise. For example, I do rum and with 50 liters approx of an all molasses wash, I strip this wash in approx 2 hours but my spirit run (second run of low wines - low wines being the product of the strip run) takes approx 7 hours for same quantity (circa 50 liters)
By maxing the condenser I mean let the water flow full blast through the condenser and then slowly up the heat under the pot until "steam" starts to come out the condenser- in other words your condenser cannot handle the vapour coming into it from your pot. Then swiftly turn down the heat bit by bit until no more steam comes out the condenser. You should see a good steady flow of likker if you have a good water supply, a good heat supply and a good long condenser. Then your condenser is at max capacity. Do this in an open place / shed etc to avoid fire as the initial "steam" is also flammable. Within a minute or so u will discover the sweet spot with the heat level to have a good speedy flow of likker coming out the end of the pipe. It is a balancing act between heat input in the pot balanced with water flow through the condenser. Of course some people have a water supply and condenser combo that will never be maxed out by their power supply and pot, but in such a case crank the heat up to the last and let her rip - sorry I meant stRIP ! Each persons set up is different, but I hope you get the general drift.

Side note : In maxing a leibig condenser you may experience "huffing" - where the condenser gives out a rhythmical vibrating sound which can sound like a fast choo-choo train, but "huffing" is more a aesthetic thing that will NOT affect what distillate you will collect from a stripping run. You can do a google search for "huffing", it is nothing to be worried about.

For a stripping run there is NO need to make cuts with jars etc, just collect all the distillate in one or two big containers (glass or SS). I collect all the ways down to just under 20%ABV,

Bottom line - give it a whirl and let us know how you get on.

U seem to have your speed/system sussed for the spirit run - way way slower / collection jars / cuts etc

Happy stillin.
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by Antler24 »

Jimy Dee wrote:Liqrlkr

I wish I twigged this from the beginning - do 2 things to get onto the next level and don't procrastinate, namely
A. Do a strip AND spirit run. You will not regret it. The spirit is superior with this system - period.
B. When doing your STRIP run (NOT the spirit run) crank up the heat so the capacity of your condenser is maxed out (or a little under it). This is a significant time saving exercise. For example, I do rum and with 50 liters approx of an all molasses wash, I strip this wash in approx 2 hours but my spirit run (second run of low wines - low wines being the product of the strip run) takes approx 7 hours for same quantity (circa 50 liters)
By maxing the condenser I mean let the water flow full blast through the condenser and then slowly up the heat under the pot until "steam" starts to come out the condenser- in other words your condenser cannot handle the vapour coming into it from your pot. Then swiftly turn down the heat bit by bit until no more steam comes out the condenser. You should see a good steady flow of likker if you have a good water supply, a good heat supply and a good long condenser. Then your condenser is at max capacity. Do this in an open place / shed etc to avoid fire as the initial "steam" is also flammable. Within a minute or so u will discover the sweet spot with the heat level to have a good speedy flow of likker coming out the end of the pipe. It is a balancing act between heat input in the pot balanced with water flow through the condenser. Of course some people have a water supply and condenser combo that will never be maxed out by their power supply and pot, but in such a case crank the heat up to the last and let her rip - sorry I meant stRIP ! Each persons set up is different, but I hope you get the general drift.

Side note : In maxing a leibig condenser you may experience "huffing" - where the condenser gives out a rhythmical vibrating sound which can sound like a fast choo-choo train, but "huffing" is more a aesthetic thing that will NOT affect what distillate you will collect from a stripping run. You can do a google search for "huffing", it is nothing to be worried about.

For a stripping run there is NO need to make cuts with jars etc, just collect all the distillate in one or two big containers (glass or SS). I collect all the ways down to just under 20%ABV,

Bottom line - give it a whirl and let us know how you get on.

U seem to have your speed/system sussed for the spirit run - way way slower / collection jars / cuts etc

Happy stillin.

That's just dangerous man. You shouldn't be recommending that anyone try to make flammable vapor from the still.
Swedish Pride wrote:
get a brix reading on said ball bearings and then you can find out how much fermentables are in there
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Re: NChooch's Bourbon Run

Post by Jimy Dee »

Antler

You are correct but I was writing it on the basis that common sense applied. I appreciate that in this day and age common sense is gone out the window, but I think most people on this forum seem to have a good measure of it still left.

I put up the reply hoping that it would assist this man getting more out of this hobby. I had no wish to get him into danger, hence my warning to do this in an open place.

In my case I can do a strip run after work any evening because it takes around 2 hours and then leave a full non-work day for a full spirit run taking around 7 to 8 hours. I wished this penny dropped much earlier for me as I spent many a long slow day doing a strip run which I could have done in approx one quarter of the time. Time management is all important in balancing this hobby with our other life / work / family commitments and obligations.

I bet practically all of us have experienced vapour coming out the end of the condenser as we juggled with condenser water supply and heat levels to the pot, and thankfully we are still here.

But to all novices - Yes, take it that what comes out the end of the pipe is flammable (of course this is not true when the %ABV drops too low) but err on the side of caution. Pull you heads out and BE SAFE. Keep open flames away from what comes out the end of the spout etc etc.

Jimy
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