My First Rum
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Re: My First Rum
Ok just opened the lid too check the hydrometer. I smacked the sides of the fermenter to knock down the C02. The hydrometer has not moved since yesterday. It's sitting at 1.070 so either it's done or stalled out. I'm not use to not being able to get an accurate reading from the hydrometer. I gave it a taste and it's pretty damn bitter. There is still a lot of activity on the surface. It's swirling and fizzing like crazy still but I don't know if that's just the C02??
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- nerdybrewer
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Re: My First Rum
I take it you don't have a Brix meter / Refractometer?Old Town wrote:Ok just opened the lid too check the hydrometer. I smacked the sides of the fermenter to knock down the C02. The hydrometer has not moved since yesterday. It's sitting at 1.070 so either it's done or stalled out. I'm not use to not being able to get an accurate reading from the hydrometer. I gave it a taste and it's pretty damn bitter. There is still a lot of activity on the surface. It's swirling and fizzing like crazy still but I don't know if that's just the C02??
Does it taste sour like lemons, or bitter like beer / coffee / unsweetened cocoa / orange peel?
Sourness indicates acidity, if it's sour then checking / adjusting PH would be good.
Sounds like you started out with a very high gravity, it's fermented but may still have a ways to go.
Did you get any PH balancer yet? I'd bet that tossing in a handful of crushed oyster shells or calcium carbonate would produce a major reaction at this point.\
Caution: if you introduce shells or another balancer and you don't have much headspace in your fermenter you could get a big mess as it bubbles and froths.
(been there, done that)
You asked earlier about splitting and adding water - that would have been a good idea much earler - it's better to have a shorter more violent ferment with a lower gravity wash.
Be patient, even when I've done high gravity like this it's gotten down to at worst 1.030 - IMHO at 1.070 you should still have fermentable sugars in there.
Knowing the PH would be great, can you get test strips?
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
Re: My First Rum
I got a digital ph meeter and I just tested my wash. It's at 3.8 so I got the wife stoping and getting some oyster shells for me. Hopefully they have them at Big-R
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Re: My First Rum
At that low you may have better luck with pickling lime from the canning section or try crushing the oyster shell up as fine as you can.Old Town wrote:I got a digital ph meeter and I just tested my wash. It's at 3.8 so I got the wife stoping and getting some oyster shells for me. Hopefully they have them at Big-R
Jbt
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Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
- Saltbush Bill
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Re: My First Rum
If its still swirling and fizzing I say its not done.
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Re: My First Rum
Agreed.Saltbush Bill wrote:If its still swirling and fizzing I say its not done.
Old Town, did you ever repitch with bakers?
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Re: My First Rum
Let me serioisly reiterated what will happen when you add crushed oyster shells or any powder to that wash. It will volcano. Be prepared. Be very prepared.
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Re: My First Rum
I agree - Just adding more sugar can be very violent an dhas to be done a tiny bit at a time until all the suspended co2 is released.zapata wrote:Let me serioisly reiterated what will happen when you add crushed oyster shells or any powder to that wash. It will volcano. Be prepared. Be very prepared.
But it can be done - a tiny bit at a time and wait for the frothing to subside before adding more.
Re: My First Rum
Ok I slowly added about 3lb of crushed oyster shells and went ahead and sprinkled some more yeast on top of that. They didn't have any bakers yeast at dollar general so I just added more distillers. It didn't explode on me but it got nice and frothy. I'm going to check the ph again in the morning after it has time to settle.
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Re: My First Rum
Meant to ask you, did you aireate the wash when you started it?
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Re: My First Rum
That's a lot of crushed shell for a 30 gallon ferment so keep a close eye on the pH, especially when the ferment slows. If it goes over 7, there is a good chance the smell will have you kicking the barrel over.
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Re: My First Rum
Nzc, could oyster shell do that? I was under the impression that they only dissolve if the ph is below 5ish and not dissolve above that?
Personally,I use a quarter cup in 5gallon and a cup in in the 25-35-and50 gallon ferment.
Jbt
Personally,I use a quarter cup in 5gallon and a cup in in the 25-35-and50 gallon ferment.
Jbt
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Re: My First Rum
Well as usual I guess I over did it. It's going to be a miracle if this turns out at all.
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Re: My First Rum
I too was under that impression, I remember SCD using a slab of marble to buffer one of his rum ferments and he didn't mention anything about it overdoing it. As I recall it ate up over 2 lbs of the marble, I don't remember the exact weight of the slab but it was over 10 lbs (I think)
I've personally added that much to a 30 ferment and when I emptied it there were shells in the bottom of the fermenter which leads me to the findings that it uses what it needed and leaves the rest.
Now it is quite possible that the ferment finished first and I ran it but I'm sceptical that it would raise it higher than 6 if even that.
I didn't at the time have a ph meter and strips are useless in a dark wash like that so I have absolutely no idea of what it finished at, all I know is that they worked and I had no off smells so to speak.
I've personally added that much to a 30 ferment and when I emptied it there were shells in the bottom of the fermenter which leads me to the findings that it uses what it needed and leaves the rest.
Now it is quite possible that the ferment finished first and I ran it but I'm sceptical that it would raise it higher than 6 if even that.
I didn't at the time have a ph meter and strips are useless in a dark wash like that so I have absolutely no idea of what it finished at, all I know is that they worked and I had no off smells so to speak.
Re: My First Rum
Oh I see so the ferment only eats the calcium as it needs it..
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Re: My First Rum
Now I understand why I should put it in their to begin with so there is no guess work later on.
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Re: My First Rum
Don't take my word for it. There are plenty here more experienced than me including NzC. I still learn every day.Old Town wrote:Oh I see so the ferment only eats the calcium as it needs it..
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Re: My First Rum
The internet myth is that it buffers at a pH suitable for yeast and distillers, but I've never seen any science to support it. Shell can be used to act as a buffer as long as you don't go overboard with it and don't leave excess in a dead ferment. If you do feel the need to use a lot, think about putting it in a string bag so that you can remove it if you stuffed up.jb-texshine wrote:Nzc, could oyster shell do that? I was under the impression that they only dissolve if the ph is below 5ish and not dissolve above that?
Personally,I use a quarter cup in 5gallon and a cup in in the 25-35-and50 gallon ferment.
Jbt
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Re: My First Rum
This indicates to me that the yeast was perfectly happy the way things where and that it was still fermenting just fine.Old Town wrote: It's swirling and fizzing like crazy still
Why the hell go adding things to it just because some damn meter tells you the PH is not what you think it should be ?
Re: My First Rum
Sorry I drank too much
Last edited by Old Town on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My First Rum
Way too much
Last edited by Old Town on Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My First Rum
Best method for raising wash ph, that's the thread I just read form a few years ago.
Same thing mentioned there as here about ph crashes and the use of shells or pickling lime to rise or buffer a washes ph.
There a few names in that thread I know and some I don't see anymore but it's a good read and I think anyone posting on this thread should read.
I'm no expert but I do in fact know that a ph of 5-5.6 is optimal for a rum wash and that a lower ph does cause a ferment to slow or even stall. using the shells to buffer from the beginning would be added insurance for the ferment, adding pickling lime would raise the ph quickly to get to healthier levels for the yeast but can be quick to go overboard and raise the ph much higher than needed.
2 tablespoons per 5 gal mixed into a slurry then added has brought mine back from the dead to finish out much quicker.
I'm off topic now and will go back to helping OT getting his ferment finished.
Ph does play a very important role in fermentation activities and will slow to a crawl or a stall if not addressed.
Shine0n
Same thing mentioned there as here about ph crashes and the use of shells or pickling lime to rise or buffer a washes ph.
There a few names in that thread I know and some I don't see anymore but it's a good read and I think anyone posting on this thread should read.
I'm no expert but I do in fact know that a ph of 5-5.6 is optimal for a rum wash and that a lower ph does cause a ferment to slow or even stall. using the shells to buffer from the beginning would be added insurance for the ferment, adding pickling lime would raise the ph quickly to get to healthier levels for the yeast but can be quick to go overboard and raise the ph much higher than needed.
2 tablespoons per 5 gal mixed into a slurry then added has brought mine back from the dead to finish out much quicker.
I'm off topic now and will go back to helping OT getting his ferment finished.
Ph does play a very important role in fermentation activities and will slow to a crawl or a stall if not addressed.
Shine0n
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Re: My First Rum
Apparently "Pickling lime" is the same as slaked lime or "Builders lime" ie Ca(OH)2 and is strongly Alkali.
".........Hydrated lime is a dry powder obtained by adding enough water to quicklime to satisfy its chemical affinity, thereby converting the oxides to hydroxides. Hydrated lime, though only slightly soluble in water, forms suspensions easily; the resulting solution and suspension is strongly alkaline, possessing a pH of 12.4.........."
Calcium Carbonate in any of it's forms, is not strongly lkali and simply reacts to acid in a solution. Carbon Dioxide passing through water produces "Carbonic acid", which is not a strong acid and is quite unstable, releasing the CO2 into the atmosphere quite quickly.
Yeast needs an acid solution to work properly, so it would be quite easy to add too much "Builder's lime", but I'm pretty sure your limestone, marble, oyster shells etc would not be cpable of being "Overdone".
So then, This seems to be where the "acidity" of a wash "magically increases" during fermentationfrom that provided at the start with your citric acid or similar. I also goes some way to explain the phenomenon that some use up a LOT of limestone trying to neutralise thsi acid,, whilst some of us just go through life putting our teaspoon or so of citric acid into every ferment at the start of the proceedings and never think again about "Acid" in any way except as a condiment for our chips ! (Fries)
".........Hydrated lime is a dry powder obtained by adding enough water to quicklime to satisfy its chemical affinity, thereby converting the oxides to hydroxides. Hydrated lime, though only slightly soluble in water, forms suspensions easily; the resulting solution and suspension is strongly alkaline, possessing a pH of 12.4.........."
Calcium Carbonate in any of it's forms, is not strongly lkali and simply reacts to acid in a solution. Carbon Dioxide passing through water produces "Carbonic acid", which is not a strong acid and is quite unstable, releasing the CO2 into the atmosphere quite quickly.
Yeast needs an acid solution to work properly, so it would be quite easy to add too much "Builder's lime", but I'm pretty sure your limestone, marble, oyster shells etc would not be cpable of being "Overdone".
So then, This seems to be where the "acidity" of a wash "magically increases" during fermentationfrom that provided at the start with your citric acid or similar. I also goes some way to explain the phenomenon that some use up a LOT of limestone trying to neutralise thsi acid,, whilst some of us just go through life putting our teaspoon or so of citric acid into every ferment at the start of the proceedings and never think again about "Acid" in any way except as a condiment for our chips ! (Fries)
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Re: My First Rum
Given that I do use quite a bit of dunder in my rum washes I have experienced very low PH and the stalling of ferment.
I ended up using a handful of crushed oyster shells in every wash because every wash (of mine) has a lot of dunder in it.
I'm talking more than 10% of the wash is dunder.
My dunder is pretty acidic stuff, so I don't add any other acid.
The shells do provide a buffer for my washes.
I've put 20 gallons of near 70% rum in barrels this year.
Not much comparing to any sort of commercial effort but respectable in terms of hobby distilling.
You have to make a lot of wash to collect 20 gallons of keep.
I've dialed in temperature control, PH balance and original gravity settings that work well for me and I produce a rum that's pretty tasty after a year in a once used bourbon barrel.
The important take away is that everyone does things differently.
My methods work for me, but everyone needs to develop their own processes and find what works.
We can give advice, but your process is your own. Finding what works for you takes trial and error.
I ended up using a handful of crushed oyster shells in every wash because every wash (of mine) has a lot of dunder in it.
I'm talking more than 10% of the wash is dunder.
My dunder is pretty acidic stuff, so I don't add any other acid.
The shells do provide a buffer for my washes.
I've put 20 gallons of near 70% rum in barrels this year.
Not much comparing to any sort of commercial effort but respectable in terms of hobby distilling.
You have to make a lot of wash to collect 20 gallons of keep.
I've dialed in temperature control, PH balance and original gravity settings that work well for me and I produce a rum that's pretty tasty after a year in a once used bourbon barrel.
The important take away is that everyone does things differently.
My methods work for me, but everyone needs to develop their own processes and find what works.
We can give advice, but your process is your own. Finding what works for you takes trial and error.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
- Saltbush Bill
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Re: My First Rum
Seems that you and I make and age similar amounts of rum Nerdy.nerdybrewer wrote:I've put 20 gallons of near 70% rum in barrels this year.
The interesting part is that I use 25% backset normally and never Buffer or interfere with my ferments PH, they ferment well and are always done in between 5 and 7 days.
One difference is that I use 100% molasses, I doubt that makes a difference though.
Probably the best advise you have been given so far Old Town.nerdybrewer wrote:The important take away is that everyone does things differently.
My methods work for me, but everyone needs to develop their own processes and find what works.
We can give advice, but your process is your own. Finding what works for you takes trial and error.
Re: My First Rum
Well the shells definitely helped. The hydrometer dropped from 1.070 to 1.060 over night. It's definitely not done, she is bubbling like crazy now.
Trial and error is definitely the best learning method but I do value all of your opinions. Thanks for helping me keep this one going guys. I'll keep you all posted on my progress.
Trial and error is definitely the best learning method but I do value all of your opinions. Thanks for helping me keep this one going guys. I'll keep you all posted on my progress.
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Re: My First Rum
Enjoy it, once you do one you'll be off to the races and coming up with your own ways.
Re: My First Rum
well it's down to 1.050 today so I've made a little more progress.
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Re: My First Rum
Sounds like thanksgiving rum run
Remember not to blow yourself up,you only get to forget once!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Deo Vendice
Never eat Mexican food north or east of Dallas tx!
Re: My First Rum
Ok just checked it again and the hydrometer hasn't moved. I gave it a taste and its bitter as hell no hint of sweet. I can't really explain the flavor but it's not to pleasant at this point. I don't see any yeast activity on the surface but it is still fizzing. The hydrometer is still reading at 1.050 but I don't think it's going to drop anymore than that. I'm going to give it until tomorrow and if there is no movement I'm calling it done. Any last words of advice before I run this one is much appreciated.
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