Pot Still Gasket / Seal

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Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby proudmary » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:13 pm

Yep... Another Gasket Question.. Sorry..

I am almost done with my pot still and need to get a gasket to hold a seal between the pot and the lid. The entire thing has been hand made, the pot lip is fairly smooth but the lid was hammered, annealed, hammered, annealed, and therefore is not perfectly smooth. I have spent a couple hours reading through numerous threads on the the subject. Some people have suggested cork gasket material while others say that the glue could be harmful. Others suggest teflon and others disagree, some people suggest silicone (once cured the viniger smell goes away) other say no silicone. Some suggest surgical tubing and someone also disagreed with it. Seems like the only thing everyone agrees on was flour and water.. I think even that may have been shot down though. :)

So after hours of reading and research I find myself in the same place as when I started this journey, no good way to seal the lid to the pot.

Here are two options im looking at:

1) RTV Silicone around the brim of the lid and let cure. Trim excess and BAM - I have a gasket.

2) Easy and Clean method - Couple feet or tubing that could be slit/cut long way and placed over the lip on the pot.

I have found some FDA Approved tubing, see below:

http://www.rubberfab.com/tubing_rf_tpr.html
or
http://www.graylineinc.com/search-for-t ... d-tpv.html

Not to stir up another gasket discussion thread but im not sure how to seal this thing..

Thanks!
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby kiwistiller » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:41 pm

I don't think anyone is going to disagree with flour paste as a safe option. As far as synthetics go, PTFE (teflon) is really the only one that has been well researched, a couple of members have run mass spec's on it, etc etc. You should treat al synthetics (especially non-PTFE options) with due caution & suspicion until you are satisfied with the evidence that it is safe. There is some interesting research being done on a very specific type of surgical tubing in the materials safety forum, you could check that out.

And to save everyone some time, here is the standard response to the FDA approval:

Everybody wrote: does the FDA approve those products for contact with high temp ethanol and other solvents???


Good luck with the research,
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby rad14701 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:15 pm

Flour paste... Get used to the idea...
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby WalkingWolf » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:19 pm

You NZ folks just seem to take a slight measure of pleasure 8) when wishing the rest of us luck when researching anything having to do with high temp/high concentration alcohol. Or maybe it's just me. :mrgreen:

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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby proudmary » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:42 pm

This site has some hoses that are made for breweries and food service, alcohol tollerant up to 96%.

S & D Hose For Food & Beverages – Alcohol (>96%) Drinking Water Etc

See site:

http://www.gammahose.com/IndustryApplic ... fault.aspx

May not work for my application, but clearly they are out there.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby rad14701 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:57 pm

proudmary wrote:This site has some hoses that are made for breweries and food service, alcohol tollerant up to 96%.

Gamma Hose wrote:Transfer/Unloading

That statement does not imply that their hose is tolerant of high temperature high %ABV alcohol vapor... We haven't found a single manufacturer who has made that claim in an MSDS document... This is an ongoing issue of people thinking they've found that magic tube/hose out there yet to date is has not been proven to exist... Go ahead and call them and see if they are willing to provide documentation sating that their product is safe with ~172F/78C - ~212F/100C alcohol vapor (vapor, not liquid)...
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby ozone39 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:00 pm

how about a rope seal (cotton or hemp)???
thinking inside the box is for squares....
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby kiwistiller » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:54 pm

WalkingWolf wrote:You NZ folks just seem to take a slight measure of pleasure 8) when wishing the rest of us luck when researching anything having to do with high temp/high concentration alcohol. Or maybe it's just me. :mrgreen:
WalkingWolf

haha I hadn't until you mentioned it... I'm more happy to act as an email proxy for anyone doing legwork researching synthetics, but I'm not really interested in doing it myself as I'm happy with my PTFE triclamp gaskets and have no need of anything else. So you write the request, I'll act as the NZ address to send the request from. If you want.

ozone39 wrote:how about a rope seal (cotton or hemp)???

I seem to recall someone advocating a cotton gasket soaked in a watery flour paste.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby LWTCS » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:23 pm

Proudmary,

It takes just a few minutes only to prep some paste. And its dang near full proof.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby WalkingWolf » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:40 pm

Thanks Kiwi. I might take you up on the NZ address bit in the future. Like you, I'm satisfied with my gaskets and tri-clamps.

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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Mark Ducati » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:44 pm

Hey, what about using simple TYGON tubing from Home Depot? They have various diameters and the stuff is pretty hearty... should work and not melt?
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby blanikdog » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:48 pm

Flour Paste is easy, clean and safe.

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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby rad14701 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:54 pm

Mark Ducati wrote:Hey, what about using simple TYGON tubing from Home Depot? They have various diameters and the stuff is pretty hearty... should work and not melt?

Do a site search for Tygon and I think you'll find that it has been discussed and not found to be tolerant of high temperature high proof alcohol... Again, for what seems like the 10th time this week, we haven't found a synthetic hose/tubing that can handle hot caustic alcohol vapor...

rad14701 wrote:. . . As per the manufacturers specifications, Tygon 2075 is only rated to 125F/52C . . .


That quote pertains to their best product as I recall...
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Mark Ducati » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:10 pm

Here ya go:)

http://www.marcorubber.com/silicone.htm

Silicone O-Rings temps good to 232 deg F, and up to 17" diameter :)

Hope this helps,
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby rad14701 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:05 pm

Doesn't help unless there is MSDS documentation, or equivalent... I'm searching and not finding - yet...
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby cob » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:31 pm

mark ducati, proud mary do a search using "ptfe o-ring" interplast inc. gos to 15" in ptfe. c.o.b.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Kentucky shinner » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:53 pm

flour paste... it works great. after you have done it a few times its not a problem. The trick I have found is dont ad to much water, keep it fairly dry much easier to work with.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Thorn_veritas » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:45 pm

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.............. the old "but i found this that works and the manufacturer says its safe line" what a crock off bullshit of course they are goin to say it is fine they want your $$$$$$$. like people before me have said unless it says it on a MSDS: Material Saftey Data Sheet ( and none do ) they are full of it!!!!!!! stick with what work flour water there done sealed and perfect and no god damn plastic!!!!!!!!

when we log onto this site there should be a page that pops up with big bright red writing saying: no plastic you damn fool! and saftey is priority number 1 then drinking but saftey first!
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby newerbrewer » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:54 pm

+1 for flour paste. Use it.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Roger from Va » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:41 am

This is not rocket science guys... Here is what I use:

FDA compliant and NSF-certified O-ring meets ANSI/NSF Standard 61 for water transmission and JMLU2 for use in natural gas, diesel fuel, fuel oil, lubricating oil, and LP gas applications.
Viton® Fluoroelastomer—FDA-compliant. Good for high-temperature applications. Temp. range is -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A60. Color is white.

Checkout the spec sheet - they are FDA approved and impervious to alcohol.

You can buy them online from McMaster Carr here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/120/3509/=qqxxyp
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Tater » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:58 am

Roger from Va wrote:This is not rocket science guys... Here is what I use:

FDA compliant and NSF-certified O-ring meets ANSI/NSF Standard 61 for water transmission and JMLU2 for use in natural gas, diesel fuel, fuel oil, lubricating oil, and LP gas applications.
Viton® Fluoroelastomer—FDA-compliant. Good for high-temperature applications. Temp. range is -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A60. Color is white.

Checkout the spec sheet - they are FDA approved and impervious to alcohol.

You can buy them online from McMaster Carr here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/120/3509/=qqxxyp
Didnt see the spec sheet about alcohol could you direct me to it . Also welcome to hd first post should be in welcome center
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby rad14701 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:45 am

Roger from Va wrote:This is not rocket science guys... Here is what I use:

FDA compliant and NSF-certified O-ring meets ANSI/NSF Standard 61 for water transmission and JMLU2 for use in natural gas, diesel fuel, fuel oil, lubricating oil, and LP gas applications.
Viton® Fluoroelastomer—FDA-compliant. Good for high-temperature applications. Temp. range is -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A60. Color is white.

Checkout the spec sheet - they are FDA approved and impervious to alcohol.

You can buy them online from McMaster Carr here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/120/3509/=qqxxyp

None of those ratings are for any product that would be ingested by a human being... No mention about food-safe or consumable alcohol safe... Think about it...!!! Point us to an MSDS that explicitly states such and perhaps you can make us believers, but not until...
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby NZChris » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:41 pm

That would be nice if only alcohol came into contact with my seals, but that isn't the case. Acetone gets there first.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Roger from Va » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:50 am

rad14701 wrote:
Roger from Va wrote:This is not rocket science guys... Here is what I use:

FDA compliant and NSF-certified O-ring meets ANSI/NSF Standard 61 for water transmission and JMLU2 for use in natural gas, diesel fuel, fuel oil, lubricating oil, and LP gas applications.
Viton® Fluoroelastomer—FDA-compliant. Good for high-temperature applications. Temp. range is -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A60. Color is white.

Checkout the spec sheet - they are FDA approved and impervious to alcohol.

You can buy them online from McMaster Carr here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/120/3509/=qqxxyp

None of those ratings are for any product that would be ingested by a human being... No mention about food-safe or consumable alcohol safe... Think about it...!!! Point us to an MSDS that explicitly states such and perhaps you can make us believers, but not until...


I wrote a detailed explanation with references to all the information that I have regarding the O rings but for some reason it was deleted. Anyway, I won't go through the detailed explanation again but here is a link to the MSDS report for the O-rings I use. http://www.edwardsvacuum.com/uploadedFi ... -Viton.pdf

rad14701, it turns out that these o-rings I use can literally be ingested by a human being - see MSDS Page 2, Number 4.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Roger from Va » Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:53 am

NZChris wrote:That would be nice if only alcohol came into contact with my seals, but that isn't the case. Acetone gets there first.


I want to thank everyone for challenging the O- rings I use. Your skepticism has helped me to do more research and I have found even better FDA approved o rings that are even more resistant to chemicals - FEP-Encapsulated O-Rings. A MSDS report can be found here: http://www.chesterton.com/Product%20Doc ... 010_EN.pdf
The gaskets can be found here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#fep-encapsulat ... gs/=qrgky8 Note: click on the "General Properties of O Ring Materials" at the top of the page to get resistance information pertaining to Alcohol, Ketones, acids, etc. The FEP column is third from the right on the table.

NZChris - you probably already know this but Acetone is a form of Ketone which is shown on the above referenced table.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Tater » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:27 am

Roger from Va wrote:
rad14701 wrote:
Roger from Va wrote:This is not rocket science guys... Here is what I use:

FDA compliant and NSF-certified O-ring meets ANSI/NSF Standard 61 for water transmission and JMLU2 for use in natural gas, diesel fuel, fuel oil, lubricating oil, and LP gas applications.
Viton® Fluoroelastomer—FDA-compliant. Good for high-temperature applications. Temp. range is -15° to +400° F. Durometer hardness is A60. Color is white.

Checkout the spec sheet - they are FDA approved and impervious to alcohol.

You can buy them online from McMaster Carr here: http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/120/3509/=qqxxyp

None of those ratings are for any product that would be ingested by a human being... No mention about food-safe or consumable alcohol safe... Think about it...!!! Point us to an MSDS that explicitly states such and perhaps you can make us believers, but not until...


I wrote a detailed explanation with references to all the information that I have regarding the O rings but for some reason it was deleted. Anyway, I won't go through the detailed explanation again but here is a link to the MSDS report for the O-rings I use. http://www.edwardsvacuum.com/uploadedFi ... -Viton.pdf

rad14701, it turns out that these o-rings I use can literally be ingested by a human being - see MSDS Page 2, Number 4.
Im looking into why your post was deleted.Were training some new guys and mistakes are going to happen.While Im old schooled and wont change my habits I'm sure theirs man made materials out there that can be used in our hobby besides Teflon ( we went along with that because a chemist member here tested it ) I don't use it either.Getting fokes to trust the info gonna be the hard part.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby abaginone » Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:31 pm

What about going to get some food grade silicone molding material and make your own gaskets.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Aaron_the_distiller » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:09 pm

abaginone wrote:What about going to get some food grade silicone molding material and make your own gaskets.


Hey i think thi might work.... FDA approved Silicon Rubber sheet. Various thicknesses, various sizes. Compliant wth several federal codes and regualtions....no MSDS as ive found, yet... Still lookin...

http://www.rubbersheetroll.com/silicone ... roved.html
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Prairiepiss » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:13 pm

If you had read the duels we live by. You would know this goes against those rules. And its been covered over and over and over. And always ends up as a flame war.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Postby Aaron_the_distiller » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:40 pm

Well it was just a thought. Looks to be safe but im not gonna pay $45 for a sheet of it to make one gasket and it not work
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