Pot Still Gasket / Seal

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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by S-Cackalacky »

6000? Old boy's jerkin' your chain.
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by rad14701 »

That size seems more appropriate for a 1500W electric still... Even then it may not handle full power... I'd have to see a liebig that small knock down substantial distillate vapor...
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Thats what it says on his profile. 6000 happy customers served and no negative feedback. Whether thats true or not I do not know. Most liebigs I have seen are 30", if I make a second condenser the same length that would give me a 36" liebig. Does this seem feasible? Would it really need to be 4ft for a beer still? I want to be safe since ill be using open flame until I get an element. Its either add another liebig or build a 1/2" worm. I have an electric 5 gallon doubler to make my cuts. Im trying to fill a 53 gallon barrel with bourbon to age 6 years by then my barrel of Makers Mark will be ready and I want to compare mine with Makers. Im using thier grain bill and I use Professional Whiskey Yeast with AG for fermentation. That shits expensive!
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by still_stirrin »

jmashspirits14 wrote:...Most liebigs I have seen are 30", if I make a second condenser the same length that would give me a 36" liebig. Does this seem feasible? Would it really need to be 4ft for a beer still? I want to be safe since ill be using open flame until I get an element. Its either add another liebig or build a 1/2" worm....
Well, if you're running on a propane burner, I wouldn't want to push hot alcohol vapors through it...they're explosive.

I don't think a 30" x 3/4" over 1/2" Liebig would be adequate for a stripper. You want to run that thing fast, so I would recommend more like 40" to 42" really, maybe 36" if you've added a copper spiral in the water jacket and you've added a turbulator vane in the vapor tube.

But, I would think that a 14" to 16" shotgun with 4 x 1/2" tubes would do you nicely though. (think...."future compatible")

The worm, if at least 20 feet of 1/2", would work for you to strip too.

You definitely want to be safe when running, especially a stripper. You don't want to get ahead of yourself.
ss

P.S. I bet "6000 happy customers served and no negative feedback", really means that he asked for good feedback on eBay...it kinda' insubstantiates the value of feedback.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

What do you think about this, adding another liebig for a total length of 42 1/2" and 38" of 3/4" water jacket? 1/2" inner pipe. I would love to have a shotgun condenser but I dont have the material resources locally to build such things. The largest copper pipe I can get here is 3/4". Ive checked Lowes and everywhere. If someone has one or would build me one for a reasonable price I would be delighted. The 16" x 2" column and 18" liebig only cost me $90. Even had I had the materials available locally I dont think I could have built it for that. I cant get copper npt's or anything here and what is available is expensive. I live in one of the top 3 poorest counties in the state.
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Two piece liebig 38" jacket total condenser length 42.5".
Two piece liebig 38" jacket total condenser length 42.5".
2015-06-17 20.27.40.jpg (7.05 KiB) Viewed 5407 times
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by still_stirrin »

That'll help. At least, it'll get you into the game.

Don't forget to build in turbulation (a copper spiral) in your water jacket. That will do more good. And you could even put a twisted piece of flattened copper into the vapor tube, so it spins while flowing in the tube. It increases the conductive material in contact with the hot vapors and help to transfer that to the water jacket.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by skow69 »

jmashspirits14 wrote:Hes built and sold 6000 of them with no complaints.
:lolno: :lol: :lolno: :lol: :lolno: :roll:
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

I still may build a 20' worm later, just likem better. Well I cleaned the column, 18" condenser, and the 24" x 1/2" pipe im going to use for the other condenser with a vinegar run and at the end of the cleaning I ran water through the 18" condenser that came with the column and it stopped all noticable vinegar steam but when I held a mirror to the end it fogged the mirror a little so it is condensing most of the vapor but not all of it. Im going to need the second liebig. The secondary will be 2.5 times the length of the original so itll be a 42" condenser total. Theres not enough room between the vapor pipe and the jacket for a spiral but I could put one inside the vapor tube made of 8 or 10 gauge copper wire. I built this keg still because I need more copper contact in my bourbon. I kinda feel like I should be moving this conversation somewhere else due to being far off topic now, but where?
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Here she is, actually came out at 43 1.4". Cools fantasically, at least with vinegar/water so far.
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Finished 43 1/4" copper liebig.
Finished 43 1/4" copper liebig.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by moosemilk »

jmashspirits14 wrote:Im eventually going to install a 5500W electric element but the controlers are ridiculous in price!
Search the forum here and you can build one cheaper going through eBay and/or Amazon.

*edited and pm sent
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by Bushman »

The image you sent with the flared pipe does not have a grooved section for the gasket thus you will have to trim the lip off any ferrule gasket you buy to get a good seal.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Thank bushman, I knew. lol. I bought a preassembled column but it was the same way. I had to use a razor and cleanly remove the raised portion of the gasket to get a good seal. It works great! I had to modify the liebig as you can see but it to works great now also. Im going to install a 1/4" copper spiral down the length of the condenser on the outside just for added cooling power. Can never be too safe!
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by Bushman »

When I was making my dephlagmater and the connection at the top of my column I CNC'ed a groove for the 4" gasket (See 3rd disk in picture below). On my 2" VM I used the top of the keg and had to do the same thing you did by cutting the top ridge off.
image.jpg
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Does anyone elses liebig sound like a steam locomotive coming out the tip with the distillate? Is this normal, is it alcohol vapor? The sound is due to cool air escaping the condenser, I can only hear it when I put my ear down there. I held a mirror to it and I got no fog. The air is very cool. How would I know if my liebig isnt condensing all vapor and im losing vapor out the end? I stopped the run because I am just unsure. I have to have the hose wide open for the liebig to stay cool. I hope this is all normal!
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by rad14701 »

jmashspirits14 wrote:Does anyone elses liebig sound like a steam locomotive coming out the tip with the distillate? Is this normal, is it alcohol vapor? The sound is due to cool air escaping the condenser, I can only hear it when I put my ear down there. I held a mirror to it and I got no fog. The air is very cool. How would I know if my liebig isnt condensing all vapor and im losing vapor out the end? I stopped the run because I am just unsure. I have to have the hose wide open for the liebig to stay cool. I hope this is all normal!
Research shock cooling, huffing, and surging... Slow your coolant flow until the top of your liebig is warm to hot while the bottom remains cold... Stuff a small amount of scrubber into the end of the liebig... It's been covered countless times...
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Ok, first time running a liebig. Ill find it. When the top of the liebig got warm I turned the cooling water up to cool the entire thing. Come to think of it now, thats when the surging began.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by Truckinbutch »

jmashspirits14 wrote:Ok, first time running a liebig. Ill find it. When the top of the liebig got warm I turned the cooling water up to cool the entire thing. Come to think of it now, thats when the surging began.
The lightbulb came on :wave: Warm to hot coolant out the top , cold coolant going in , cool fully condensed product coming out the drinkin end .
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Nope, I is wrong. I fired it back up and am running as we speak. Did the reading, my liebig is on more than a 45 degree angle, I put stainless packing in the tip, im running the condenser water very slow and its still huffing. I cant get a solid stream either. Im at 195.5f and only have 3/4 gallon so far. Its weird because the condenser at the top is much cooler than where the distillate comes out. It slightly fogs a mirror but I think that's the cool air from the huffing doing that. I hope! Im running a fan on low just incase to blow potential vapor away from the burner. Im also outside. Boy ill be glad once this thing is electric. Should get at least 2.5gal of low wines from the sweetfeed recipe. I can turn the coolant almost off and the huffing will almost stop but the liebig seems to get too hot for my last nerve. I sure as hell dont want to blow up!
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by HDNB »

i dont see how its possible to have the condensor colder at the top and hotter at the product end unless your coolant is hooked up backards...which would account for huffing too.

:wtf:
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

It seems it was back asswards but I just switched it so the cool water is going in where the alcohol comes out and it is now cool at the bottom and warm at the top but now its huffing worse.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by bearriver »

jmash, I would be surprised if we couldn't diagnose the problem using only a picture of your still setup.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Not a great picture but here she is huffing and a puffing. Ran 12gal sweetfeed wash and got 2.25gal low wines. I ended the run at 205f. Im sure the wort temp was more toward 212f because the last quart was pretty weak even for lows.
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Another angle
Another angle
2015-06-25 01.57.20.jpg (4.94 KiB) Viewed 5285 times
15.5gal keg still, 16" x 2" column, and 43 1/4" x 1/2" liebig w/3/4" jackets.
15.5gal keg still, 16" x 2" column, and 43 1/4" x 1/2" liebig w/3/4" jackets.
2015-06-25 01.59.23.jpg (5.84 KiB) Viewed 5285 times
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by still_stirrin »

When you built the Liebig, did you put a spiral wrap on the vapor tube (inside the water jacket)?

It sounds to me like you're still getting vapor blow by because your product condenser is not knocking down all the vapor coming off your pot still, likely due to innefficiency. You would need to improve the heat transfer efficiency of the condenser or reduce boiler heat.

The condenser looks like it should be long enough, but its still letting vapors puff through it. You've got a scrubbie stuffed (loosely) into your product outlet? A little restriction should help slow the vapors inside the condenser to help them condense before exiting.

Sometimes it takes a little practice to "dial in" a still. They're all a little different...just like women...alike, but different in an exceptional way.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by HDNB »

so huffing= vapour collapse creating a temporary vacuum, pulling air into the condensor, then filling with vapour again that collapses...repeating causing a noise like a dog panting. (adjust heat/cooling water)

puffing= blowing steam continously out the end of the condensor (reduce heat!)

which is it doing?
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Its not blowing any steam out the end. Its huffing. I cant reduce the heat anymore, once up to temp I cut the burner down as far as possible without it going out. Yes, stainless scrubie in the tip. How many inches of scrubbie should I use? I only put maybe an inch worth in the tip. Inside the liebig there wasnt enough room for a spiral, its 1/2" vapor tube and 3/4" jacket. I wanted to put a 1/4" spiral inside but there wasnt enough room. Fores didnt start until about 185f-186f, is this right? My 5gal still starts about 96c and ends at 99c depending on abv. The higher abv the lower temp it starts at. I just wonder if the water jacket starts too soon. The first water jacket starts right off the 1/2" elbow which means theres only maybe 2.5" of vapor space coming into the half inch pipe. But then it has 16" of 2" column. The vapor is being knocked down at almost the instant it enters the 1/2" vapor tube. There was nothing really I could do about that because the first 18" liebig was already built I just added another one to it for a total of 43" liebig. Next run im going to try just running the longest water jacket and allow the vapor to come further into the tube before knocking it down. I wish one of you guys lived close enough to just come over and run this thing once.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by HDNB »

beats the shit outta me. it looks like it should work. the flame is on low and cooling water in the bottom out the top...and you are saying it's huffing?

the temps don't mean anything to me, i don't use them... but it makes sense the higher the abv charge the lower the temp it will start at.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by still_stirrin »

jmashspirits14 wrote:Its not blowing any steam out the end. Its huffing....
If you sick your finger over the end of the product outlet, do you feel a pulsating vacuum? Or do you feel a pulsating surge? The former is huffing. The later is puffing.
jmashspirits14 wrote:...I just wonder if the water jacket starts too soon. The first water jacket starts right off the 1/2" elbow which means theres only maybe 2.5" of vapor space coming into the half inch pipe. But then it has 16" of 2" column. The vapor is being knocked down at almost the instant it enters the 1/2" vapor tube. There was nothing really I could do about that because the first 18" liebig was already built I just added another one to it for a total of 43" liebig...
When you run, is the top of your 2" riser hot, I mean "ouch" hot? What about the vapor inlet to the 1st condenser? It should be just as hot. In fact, the top portion of the water jacket should be hot too. If it isn't, you may have condensing occuring in the riser (reflux), which is the source of your huffing.

You could try to lengthen the separation between the riser and the condenser vapor inlet so you do get a vapor gradient before you force the condensation. Its worth a try.

Also, shoving the vapors that are rising in the 2" riser into a 1/2" vapor tube causes a lot of acceleration of the vapor and that would likewise result in expansion of the vapors and a corresponding reduction in the static pressure, which would actually lower the boiling point (retarding condensation) in the tube. When it does condense and the vapor collapses, the static pressure rises and heat is liberated to your condenser, resulting in a vacuum (or huffing).

A gradial temperature gradient off of the riser would help with equilibrium of the phase change and should stop the huff & puff.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

I actually never put my finger over the end but I can feel cool air puffing out. Well before I put the scrubbie in there. I dont know about now but I can still hear it huffing. It actually got worse when I hooked the cooling water up correctly. The column and 1/2" vapor tube gets hot enough you dont want to touch it more than a second. If I run the burner any lower itll go out. Unless I just have to find a sweet spot, I dont know. Maybe the burner is too much, its a 220,000 btu burner from bayou classic I bought from AIH.
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by HDNB »

i like still stirrins ideas there^^ something i never considered in the equation. going from 2" to 1/2" is going to speed up the vapour tremendously.

if the transition from 2" to 1/2" is as short as noted, i can picture the vapour speeding into the condensor, collapsing and then repeating from the vacuum created by the collapse.

in theory makes sense anyway.

is there a way you can step down the lyne arm more gradually and make it longer? using reducers maybe? I think it would be worth a try!
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Re: Pot Still Gasket / Seal

Post by jmashspirits14 »

Just wanted to let everyone know I solved my huffing problem. The very short reduction from 2" column to 1/2" condenser IS what the problem was. Since my liebig has two seperate water jackets the first and original being much shorter than the one I added on I simply just dont use the first 18" water jacket and only use the longer second jacket I put on allowing a much longer vapor tube for the vapor to slow down a bit and the huffing stopped. The one water jacket knocks down all the vapor also, I am losing no vapor out the distilate opening. Works like a dream! Once im up to temperature I can strip 13 gallons of 11abv wash/mash in 4 hours with a match stem size stream. This is with a 220,000 btu propane burner all the way on low. Im almost finished converting to 5500w Camco Ultra Low Watt Density Ripple Element so I dont know how muxh affect the conversion will have on production speed. I can get my still up to temp in 30 minutes if I want to with the burner, its said that my particular element can reach operation temps in an hour. We'll see I suppose.
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