WARNING! AMAZING STILL CAN KILL.

This hobby is fun & enjoyable, but it is not tiddlywinks. Be safe!

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TCNZ
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WARNING! AMAZING STILL CAN KILL.

Post by TCNZ »

I feel morally obliged to warn people who are using or planning to build a Amazing Still: it can electro-execute you.

This is my personal experience.

I assembled my first lethal weapon in May, 2005. I ordered from Gert Strand (Sweden) a heater (Eden 425 100W, made in Italy) and it was really easy and took little time to come out with a working still.

The result was acceptable (if you are not too critical) after carbon treatment. Usually I got 2L <40% ABV first, collected it and carried on to get further 3L <20% with a 10L inner pail (I used turbo yeast to achieve 20% wash).

However, after several distillations the heater leaked, the whole heating element was burnt black and the glass tube was flooded with mash.

Had I been careless enough as not to switch off and unplugged before collecting the distillate, I might have been killed - electrically.

I then duly reported the case to Gert Strand - my aim was to warn other users - and was told that the manufacturer admitted there was a moulding problem with plastic parts.

I got a replacement by August, 2005 while I had to pay for the postage of US$10.

I then proceeded to assemble the second lethal weapon.

It seemed everything went fine until May, 2006. At first I noticed a small molten metal ball the size of the tip of a ball-point pen stuck to the inside wall of the glass tube 1/3 away from the bottom, there was also sight of a little bit burnt out to the adjacent heating element.

As I carried on using it, not long later, I noticed water condensation in the top chamber of the glass tube and the paper label inside was all wet.

I according reported the case to Gert Strand, on June 27, 2006....but until now I didn't hear anything from them except a junk email advertising Easystill this time.

The Amazing Still might sound like a wise and affordable alternative to conventional stills, but if it takes - within less then one year - 2 burnt heaters, US$60 in total, one unanswered complaint and a definite life hazard, it is definitely another case of false economics.

So my warning friends, always switch off and unplug, warn you family members not to get close, and put warning labels around the Amazing thing to remind yourself.

Goodbye Amazing Still.
I drink alcohol, not alcohol drinks me!
Rotgut
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Post by Rotgut »

thank you for posting that i was plan on building one today but well have to see
vairox
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Post by vairox »

Rotgut wrote:thank you for posting that i was plan on building one today but well have to see
I too originally planned on making an amazing still, but after learning that it isn't much harder to make a potstill I decided on that - then decided it wasn't much harder to make an internal reflux still over a potstill, and am currently working on that slowly one piece at a time.

biggest problem for a rookie is learning (for me anyway) column length and width that is optimal for the size of boiler and heat source you are using, everything else kinda falls into place - there are calculators on the parent site that apparently allow you to basically design a still using various numbers but they just confused the bleep out of me.
Uncle Remus
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Post by Uncle Remus »

If you're lucky you get zapped and ending up with a perm. Hopefully that all that happens.

Personally I'd never dick around with heating a still with internal electricity in the first place. Propane (or a gas fired camp stove) is easy to control your heat and is also portable. I know a lot of people are buzzed out about having an open flame around a still, but you shouldn't be. I've successfully done over 100 runs without incident. All it takes is a few percautions and a bit of common sense.

Yesterday we did seconds on some whiskey. The end result was 19 litres of 78% average av whiskey to be cut down to drinkable strength.

The keg was about 3/4 full of volatile distillate at the start. Now can you imagine if half or three quarters of the way through this run, with the keg full of vapour, an electric heater emmersed in this volatile liquid/vapor suddenly starts shorting out and making sparks. KA-BOOM! :shock: and they find pieces of your shed and body in neighbours' yards 2 blocks away!

These emersable heaters are made to heat water...if they happen to short out heating water no big deal, it sits there and snap, crackles and pops until your breaker throws. But get a snap, crackle, or pop happening in a boiler full of alcohol vapor and your head gets blown off long before your breaker blows.

To each their own. But I'll sitck to 'propane and propane accessories'. :lol: As aways JMHO
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all day and drink beer.
AfricaUnite
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Post by AfricaUnite »

I too had that problem with the fish tank heater type element. I now use a 1000W submersable aluminum element with much greater success. I agree, the alcohol seems to eat through the fish tank heater, mine burned black also.

-AU
hornedrhodent
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Post by hornedrhodent »

Uncle Remus wrote:
The keg was about 3/4 full of volatile distillate at the start. Now can you imagine if half or three quarters of the way through this run, with the keg full of vapour, an electric heater emmersed in this volatile liquid/vapor suddenly starts shorting out and making sparks. KA-BOOM! :shock: and they find pieces of your shed and body in neighbours' yards 2 blocks away!

These emersable heaters are made to heat water...if they happen to short out heating water no big deal, it sits there and snap, crackles and pops until your breaker throws. But get a snap, crackle, or pop happening in a boiler full of alcohol vapor and your head gets blown off long before your breaker blows.

To each their own. But I'll sitck to 'propane and propane accessories'. :lol: As aways JMHO


I disagree UR - to get an explosion you need oxygen to react with the ethanol and there'll be very little of that after you've done half or 3/4 of the run.
Even on a final run your heating element should still be covered in liquid and any sparks would be under the liquid and unlikely to ignite anything.
Even 78% (your final product I read it - rather than the liquid in the boiler after a significant amount of distilling) would have enough water in it to conduct enough to blow the fuses.


I agree with you about propane though. I use firewood and propane's got to be safer and more controllable.


This is the second time I've answered this post - The site crashed when I answered it this morning - hope it works this time. :)
drunk2much
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Post by drunk2much »

[/quote]Uncle Remus
To each their own. But I'll sitck to 'propane and propane accessories'. As aways JMHO
I wonder why dale gribble hasent built hisself a still its right up his character alley?? and hank could get suspicious of all the coupious amount of propane he is buing
when is never enough?
AfricaUnite
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Post by AfricaUnite »

I agree a perfect scenerio would be Dale gets suspicious about rising oil costs and decides to make his own fuel, thus need a ton of propane from hank.
Uncle Jesse
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yep

Post by Uncle Jesse »

I've said it before and I'll say it again: use copper or stainless for your still.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
hoochinoo
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Post by hoochinoo »

My friend TCNZ,

It is not a surprise to me to read about your findings.

We live in a complicated and intertwined world where TRUTH is no longer.

Unfortunately, buyer beware!?

I am very sorry for your troubles.
edpump

WARNING! AMAZING STILL CAN KILL.

Post by edpump »

Yes... me too.
Stanley
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It put me in the hospital and almost killed me!

Post by Stanley »

I was truly almost killed by my amazing still. I'm talking a long very painful death here. I got Legionnaires Disease from it.

If you do a search on Legionaries Disease you will find that it is caused by inhalation of aerosoled bacteria that has grown in a very warm environment. The bacteria that causes Legionnaires Disease is present all around us in the soil but it is harmless. You can drink water containing the bacteria and it won't harm you at all. You have to breathe it in. The disease is fatal in 5% to 30% of cases.

Where does it grow? From the Center for Disease Control and Prevention website:

"The Legionella bacteria are found naturally in the environment, usually in water. The bacteria grow best in warm water, like the kind found in hot tubs, cooling towers, hot water tanks, large plumbing systems, or parts of the air-conditioning systems of large buildings. "

I would also add "Amazing Still" to the list. The Amazing Still is the perfect environment for the bacteria to grow.

If you build this type of still be sure everything is sanitized and no outside air can contaminate the water/mash. If you open the still up do not breathe in the vapors like I did. The hospital bill was $20,000 and luckily I have good health insurance.

If I had built a regular pot or reflux still this wouldn't have happened to me because the temperatures are too high for any germs or bacteria to survive.

I threw my Amazing Still in the trash.


Stanley
CoopsOz
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Post by CoopsOz »

Man, that's incredible....if that's not enough to deter people from building one, nothing is.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856
Uncle Jesse
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yep

Post by Uncle Jesse »

Unsafe time bombs such as the Amazing Still do far more to keep small-volume home distillation illegal than any good they're ever going to do.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
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Post by Husker »

That, AND the greedy SOB govt not wanting any completion into their numbers racket which is their main goal.

H.
blanikdog
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Post by blanikdog »

Husker wrote:That, AND the greedy SOB govt not wanting any completion into their numbers racket which is their main goal.
Shit husk, I never thought that you were cynical. :o :o
Simple potstiller. Slow, single run.
(50 litre, propane heated pot still. Coil in bucket condenser - No thermometer, No carbon)
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Post by Husker »

When it comes to govt vs thieves, I would take the thieves. You could protect yourself from the thieves, and they also have a code of honor.
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shadylane
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Post by shadylane »

I never did like the idea of plastic being in contact with hot alcohol, it just don't seem wise. On the other hand those plastic bottles that mineral water comes in is a great way to carry your shine with you. People wonder why you take small sips of water and make such a bad face.
CanadianWhiskey

Post by CanadianWhiskey »

problems with the element burning from alcohol?

assuming its a staright hotwater element,take a 3inch copper pipe, solder a cap on one end, cut it 2 inches longer than the element, solder the correct ruders to make a snug fit around the start of element, solder it tight just before the electrical wires, cuta 3inch hole in your keg/pot, insert and fix it to the keg...presto. element heats the water which heats the mash, problem solved
CanadianWhiskey

Post by CanadianWhiskey »

lol you might wanna fill it with water before sealing it shut...its late, im tired, i know, im an idiot
CanadianWhiskey wrote:problems with the element burning from alcohol?

assuming its a staright hotwater element,take a 3inch copper pipe, solder a cap on one end, cut it 2 inches longer than the element, solder the correct ruders to make a snug fit around the start of element, solder it tight just before the electrical wires, cuta 3inch hole in your keg/pot, insert and fix it to the keg...presto. element heats the water which heats the mash, problem solved
CanadianWhiskey

Post by CanadianWhiskey »

spelling correction .. ruders-reducers
CanadianWhiskey wrote:problems with the element burning from alcohol?

assuming its a staright hotwater element,take a 3inch copper pipe, solder a cap on one end, cut it 2 inches longer than the element, solder the correct ruders to make a snug fit around the start of element, solder it tight just before the electrical wires, cuta 3inch hole in your keg/pot, insert and fix it to the keg...presto. element heats the water which heats the mash, problem solved
HookLine
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Post by HookLine »

CanadianWhiskey wrote:[fill with water, then] solder it tight
Anyone else spotted the flaw in this cunning plan?
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.
punkin
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Post by punkin »

HookLine wrote:
CanadianWhiskey wrote:[fill with water, then] solder it tight
Anyone else spotted the flaw in this cunning plan?



Anyone who's ever plumbed would :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
mikeac
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Post by mikeac »

looks like a pipe bomb to me......a good one to...soon as the water boils....Duck and cover!
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Post by Husker »

mikeac wrote:looks like a pipe bomb to me......a good one to...soon as the water boils....Duck and cover!
hehe, duck and cover. That was the South Park way to avoid injury in the event of a volcano, simply duck and cover :)

H.
punkin
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Post by punkin »

You just plain can't do it.

The steam from the heat will blow bubbles in your solder. :?
HookLine
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Post by HookLine »

Indeed. Water boils at 100C. Solder takes around 200C+ to melt (and I won't even consider braze, which takes around 700C to melt). To get the solder to melting temp you would have to boil off all the water first. Which kinda defeats the purpose.

You could put a threaded port on the cover, fill it with water, then screw a cap on the port, but (as others have pointed out) you are then left with a pressure bomb.

Think I'll stick to low density elements and straining the solids out from the wash.
Be safe.
Be discreet.
And have fun.
Bodevilio
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Post by Bodevilio »

mikeac wrote:looks like a pipe bomb to me......a good one to...soon as the water boils....Duck and cover!
u can't solder anything with water in it i've tried many times when I worked as a plumber
SMOKEU
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Re: WARNING! AMAZING STILL CAN KILL.

Post by SMOKEU »

Hook it up to an RCD.
Sbeghan
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Re: WARNING! AMAZING STILL CAN KILL.

Post by Sbeghan »

I'd stay even if you used a threaded connection and sealed it shut it could still boil and explode (but the pressure would probably cause the threaded seal to fail and boil out that way, but...)
What may work well is to fill it with mineral oil and then seal it, or another thermally conductive thing like metal shavings packed with oil/vaseline. As long as there's no gas in there to expand with heat it should be inert up to the temps that the solder on the cap will fail. At worst you'll get pyrolysis of the oil but that won't be a problem.
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