Plastics question rearing it's ugly head again...

[thecroweater]

Yeah if you used one stretched out layer maybe you might have some sort of point but that's not how its used is it. As for PTFE wrapped silicon 4 yrs and counting and no change yet, as in none what so ever but I will say as I have before I'm more comfortable with these seals than some cardboard or MDF crap from god knows where

[Bagasso]

It isn't a matter of a change in the ptfe but what might be getting through.

[IanD]

I'm legal, and having a little bit of dough wrapped around a pipe doesn't look too legit for sight-seers.

Make a feature of it. Boast that you would rather use flour paste than plastics you can't be sure are safe.

Flour has very poor resistance to both water and ethanol.

[der wo]

For me too the important thing is, what effect has the sealing material on the spirit, not the spirit on the seal. But in my opinion we have to handle with the information we can get (By the way, that's what we do always in our life, when we make thoughtful decisions). And the most reliable acting infos we can get are these resistant charts, I think. That ptfe is resistant against our spirit is not a proof but a strong indication, that ptfe adds and transforms nothing in our spirit. That silicone ist not resistant against our spirit is a strong indication, that it adds or transforms something. That ptfe gets an A-rating and silicone a B or C in a test, what measures the effect on the plastic, is a strong indication, what a test for the effect on the spirit would result, I think.

Flour has very poor resistance to both water and ethanol.

Yes. But what could come into your spirit will not harm you or the taste.

[IanD]

....

Flour has very poor resistance to both water and ethanol.

Yes. But what could come into your spirit will not harm you or the taste.

But what if you are gluten intolerant?

Seriously though, that's my point exactly. Resistance to various chemicals must be close to irrelevant if flour is acceptable. Toxicity should be the criterion driving choice of material.

Edit: Resistance to chemicals is relevant mainly to longevity not necessarily suitability.

[CR33G3R]

Resistance to chemicals is important in synthetics. If the material is breaking down there is only one place for it to go. In the spirit.
I think there are a few threads where members have had spirits tested while using different materials in their stills and have posted results.
So yea resistance is important to longevity... of us.
Flour paste is not a synthetic that's the huge difference.

[IanD]

It makes no difference whether it's natural or synthetic. If it's toxic it's bad. If it's non-toxic it isn't bad.

[IanD]

...
Resistance to chemicals is important in synthetics. If the material is breaking down there is only one place for it to go. In the spirit.
...

If we're talking about a gasket between the pot and column then there are 2 places it can go. Up the column or back down into the pot.

[Bagasso]

If we're talking about a gasket between the pot and column then there are 2 places it can go. Up the column or back down into the pot.

When its copper in the sights then this is quickly pointed out.

[conejo148]

Read lots of good info on here, and I'm well aware of the board views on synthetics....again, this post was regarding a specific, new type of Viton cured differently than in the past, but whatever, it doesn't meet the criteria for our work so we can move on and I'm ok with that. I introduced it and wanted intelligent, adult feedback (which I received, thanks,) to see if it was satisfactory or not.

That said, a young lady that is a customer service rep called me last night from the aforementioned gasket company. There is 1 particular seal that is tested specifically for alcohol distillation...and it's about $75 for a single 2" piece. So....moving on, she suggested a different gasket, I'm getting a few samples. They have just received a patent for it and it's not listed in any catalogs yet. It is an EPDM core with a 1/16" to 3/32" Teflon encapsulating shell. Will run about $10-12/ea for a 2". The EPDM core will allow for better compression, and won't require the heat-up time that PTFE does for a good seal. I mentioned durability concerns of it just having a Teflon shell, and she said that it is flexible enough that unless it is gouged or purposely cut by something it will maintain the same characteristics as solid Teflon.

As far as testing goes, she said the entire (seal manufacturing) industry is pretty passive about it because it's something that's left up to the end user. Just because I make widgets, and you make widgets, we may have different processes, and minor changes in process can greatly affect the integrity of the seals. Industry guidelines, like the chemical resistance chart I linked to yesterday, are just guidelines to use as a starting point. I'm sure most of know that different mash will produce different levels of chemicals in our vapor/distillate, and that's one of the legal reasons there isn't much by way of distillery safe seals.

Backstory on the young CSR...her Grampa did federal time for bootlegging, and she has some uncles that still run a little...could be one of y'all. I may have gotten lucky on this one. She works for her family business that solely manufactures sanitary clamp gaskets for pharmaceutical and medical use. One other thing she mentioned, if you use a Made in USA clamp, get a Made in USA gasket. Overseas companies produce gaskets and clamps to different depths/diameters/gauge, whatever you want to call the specs. US manufacturers are consistent in measurements.

As far as my first steps when I receive my gaskets, she said the easiest way to test for leeching/retention is a simple weight test (in grams.) Any lost material will obviously decrease the weight, and as far as porosity goes, any retained liquid will add to the weight. If any one here is a full-on chemist, has proper credentials, scientific method, etc, I'll send you one to test for us if so desired, and the group doesn't lynch me in absentia for pursuing a synthetic alternative.

[thecroweater]

Far as im concerned get ya gaskets and get them tested (and the spirit tested) , more tools in the toolbox is never a bad thing as long as it stands up to safety standards and remains affordable. Just dont recomend them here till all the data is in and peer reveiwed and you're golden. I find it a bit dissapointing that manafacturers don't test their products, i would have thought they had a duty of care issue and expose themselves to liability

[raketemensch]

I did use the silicone gasket that came with my ferrule until my PTFE one arrived.

I have to say that I miss it a little, now that the column slides around on the sanke port like butter on Teflon.

[conejo148]

The gaskets came in Friday afternoon, haven't had time to do anything with them since I need to re-work the still to use the new 316 tubing I picked up at the recycling yard. I received 2 PTFE coated/EPDM core 2", and 2 VITON Extreme duty EPS-600 gaskets. I'm more than willing to forward them on to someone who will test them for the group.

BTW--if you have a food processing plant nearby find out where they recycle at. I bought almost 30ft of 316, most with ferrules already welded, for $1.50 lb. Cost me $62.50 for 30 ft +/-, 9 ferrules, and 6 clamps. All stainless. 304 would have been $1/lb. God Bless 'Merica. I can now get rid of the 2" 304 threaded pipe I've had and the PTFE wrapped joints. Hopefully have some time to work on it this coming week.

Offer stands if someone wants to try out a set of these gaskets, only have 2 of each.