Co2/ethanol detector

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Hanson423
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Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Hanson423 »

I looked on the forum Google search for this but didn't find much. I was wondering if anyone here uses and knows how well CO2 or ethanol detectors work ( for leaks in still)? I'm not talking about the high doller ones. Around $20 or so.
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Truckinbutch
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Truckinbutch »

A mirror will work well for detecting ethanol leaks while stilling . Are you wishing to detect co2 or co (carbon monoxide) ?
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Biker Mark
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Biker Mark »

I was proofing some Likker not long ago, I had 3 half gallon jars and was pouring back and forth and testing for proof and set mine off.
The still wasn't running I was only proofing. Strange shit there..
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Hanson423
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Hanson423 »

Truckinbutch wrote:A mirror will work well for detecting ethanol leaks while stilling . Are you wishing to detect co2 or co (carbon monoxide) ?
Yeah. I do that too, but the wife is a little worried I might catch the house on fire. So she's wantin me to use an eletric element I can't afford that right now and I really don't wanna use one. I did a test run last night with water and there were no leaks at all. So I figure maybe if get these things she'll calm down a bit. Haha. Now I understand safety. That is the number one thing I have in mind when I'm doing this. I'm also going to be buying a fire extinguisher and I would like to keep a bucket of sand/dirt near by.
Hanson423
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Hanson423 »

Biker Mark wrote:I was proofing some Likker not long ago, I had 3 half gallon jars and was pouring back and forth and testing for proof and set mine off.
The still wasn't running I was only proofing. Strange shit there..
Was it a co2 or ethanol detector?
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by rad14701 »

Hanson423 wrote:I'm also going to be buying a fire extinguisher and I would like to keep a bucket of sand/dirt near by.
Scrap the sand/dirt idea and just keep a charged garden hose handy... One or two quick mists will cool and dilute any burning alcohol to the point where it is no longer able to ignite or maintain a flame... Of course the best scenario is to avoid potential fires altogether...

You really shouldn't run propane inside a dwelling due to carbon monoxide buildup... I've never had issues with a gas stovetop tripping my CO alarm though...
Hanson423
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Hanson423 »

And it's not like the alcohol will explode right? or will it explode of the fire get into the still?
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by rad14701 »

Hanson423 wrote:And it's not like the alcohol will explode right? or will it explode of the fire get into the still?
Explosions are usually caused due to pressure buildup in a boiler which causes a catastrophic failure... This can be from not monitoring how much heat is being applied or an obstruction in the vapor path... Hence our stance on never leaving a still unattended and not imbibing or becoming distracted during a still run...
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Kareltje
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Kareltje »

Hanson423 wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote:A mirror will work well for detecting ethanol leaks while stilling . Are you wishing to detect co2 or co (carbon monoxide) ?
Yeah. I do that too, but the wife is a little worried I might catch the house on fire. So she's wantin me to use an eletric element I can't afford that right now and I really don't wanna use one. I did a test run last night with water and there were no leaks at all. So I figure maybe if get these things she'll calm down a bit. Haha. Now I understand safety. That is the number one thing I have in mind when I'm doing this. I'm also going to be buying a fire extinguisher and I would like to keep a bucket of sand/dirt near by.
I remember someone has experimented with putting out a fire of ethanol, somewhere on the forum.
The best way was, as one would expect when having a bit of training, with a gentle mist of water. This dilutes the alcohol to a low percentage and it prevents the spreading by a hard beam of water or extinguishing medium. After the quenching of the burning alcohol there might be of course other parts of the house that are on fire. For these too a start with a mist or rain of water will be best.

About the fears of your wife: CO2 does NOT set the house on fire, it only takes your breath away. It is the byproduct of EVERY burning of gas or oil. CO will hardly set the house on fire, but will kill you after giving you a bad headache.
Fluid leaking from the joints of your still are seldom inflammable (of is it flammable?) because during the leaking all the alcohol will have evaporated, so the leaking drops will hardly have any water in them.
Ethanol in mixtures with air can indeed explode: the lower limit is 3 %ABV in air, the upper limit is 19 %ABV. If you know the volume of your room you can easily calculate the volume of ethanol necessary to make a bomb. One kg of ethanol makes 487 liters of ethanol vapour. So you can easily calculate how much kg of ethanol you have to lose through leaks before you turn your house into a bomb. Taking the ventilation into account, of course! One kg ethanol is about 1,25 litres fluid ethanol. (To help you: 1 kg ethanol vaporized to 487 litres in a room of 16 m3 is an explosive mixture. 16 m3 is 4 by 2 by 2 m, that is about my very small, one-person kitchen.)
Now estimate the chance of losing one kg of ethanol from your still, without noticing anything! Even I with my behaviour, still and kitchen would deem that impossible!

Edit: OK. I forgot the chances of an explosion because some part of the outlet is blocked. You can easily check that by blowing through the pipes before you connect them to your still. (I remember a story of a mouse found in a part of a still: you do not want it to block the output and so lower your production!) Then you have to be sure the contents of your boiler can not make a solid foam and block the column. To be really sure you stay with your still while it is heated up and you follow the path of the vapour through the column and condenser. As soon as the vapour of condens is coming out of your condenser, at least that problem is over.

Edit again: Fire going into the still through the condenser and then up into the boiler will not come far because of lack of oxygen to substain the burning. The fire on your gasstove does not go into the gaspipes, does it?
Tomorrow I will try and make a test to be sure about that.

The final argument: billions of litres of very high proof alcohol are produced every year. Even many more litres of highly flammable and explosive fluids and gases are made, every day. Safely, with hardly a accident.
Hanson423
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Hanson423 »

Kareltje wrote:
Hanson423 wrote:
Truckinbutch wrote:A mirror will work well for detecting ethanol leaks while stilling . Are you wishing to detect co2 or co (carbon monoxide) ?
Yeah. I do that too, but the wife is a little worried I might catch the house on fire. So she's wantin me to use an eletric element I can't afford that right now and I really don't wanna use one. I did a test run last night with water and there were no leaks at all. So I figure maybe if get these things she'll calm down a bit. Haha. Now I understand safety. That is the number one thing I have in mind when I'm doing this. I'm also going to be buying a fire extinguisher and I would like to keep a bucket of sand/dirt near by.
I remember someone has experimented with putting out a fire of ethanol, somewhere on the forum.
The best way was, as one would expect when having a bit of training, with a gentle mist of water. This dilutes the alcohol to a low percentage and it prevents the spreading by a hard beam of water or extinguishing medium. After the quenching of the burning alcohol there might be of course other parts of the house that are on fire. For these too a start with a mist or rain of water will be best.

About the fears of your wife: CO2 does NOT set the house on fire, it only takes your breath away. It is the byproduct of EVERY burning of gas or oil. CO will hardly set the house on fire, but will kill you after giving you a bad headache.
Fluid leaking from the joints of your still are seldom inflammable (of is it flammable?) because during the leaking all the alcohol will have evaporated, so the leaking drops will hardly have any water in them.
Ethanol in mixtures with air can indeed explode: the lower limit is 3 %ABV in air, the upper limit is 19 %ABV. If you know the volume of your room you can easily calculate the volume of ethanol necessary to make a bomb. One kg of ethanol makes 487 liters of ethanol vapour. So you can easily calculate how much kg of ethanol you have to lose through leaks before you turn your house into a bomb. Taking the ventilation into account, of course! One kg ethanol is about 1,25 litres fluid ethanol. (To help you: 1 kg ethanol vaporized to 487 litres in a room of 16 m3 is an explosive mixture. 16 m3 is 4 by 2 by 2 m, that is about my very small, one-person kitchen.)
Now estimate the chance of losing one kg of ethanol from your still, without noticing anything! Even I with my behaviour, still and kitchen would deem that impossible!

Edit: OK. I forgot the chances of an explosion because some part of the outlet is blocked. You can easily check that by blowing through the pipes before you connect them to your still. (I remember a story of a mouse found in a part of a still: you do not want it to block the output and so lower your production!) Then you have to be sure the contents of your boiler can not make a solid foam and block the column. To be really sure you stay with your still while it is heated up and you follow the path of the vapour through the column and condenser. As soon as the vapour of condens is coming out of your condenser, at least that problem is over.

Edit again: Fire going into the still through the condenser and then up into the boiler will not come far because of lack of oxygen to substain the burning. The fire on your gasstove does not go into the gaspipes, does it?
Tomorrow I will try and make a test to be sure about that.

The final argument: billions of litres of very high proof alcohol are produced every year. Even many more litres of highly flammable and explosive fluids and gases are made, every day. Safely, with hardly a accident.
Thank for all this info!
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Kareltje
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Kareltje »

You are welcome!
At highschool a wise classmate told me: "When you fear something, go to the source and research it. Is it real, how great is the danger, what can possibly happen, what are the odds, what can be done? Then you can act accordingly and stop fearing!"

Your wife, as many others, me included, is afraid of what she can imagine to go wrong. When someone is willing to face the truth, he or she can be helped. A lot of people do not want to think again and face the truth, for that takes an effort and they are rather lazy.

But then again: shit sometimes does hit the fan and in the end we all will die!
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Biker Mark
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Biker Mark »

Hanson423 wrote:
Biker Mark wrote:I was proofing some Likker not long ago, I had 3 half gallon jars and was pouring back and forth and testing for proof and set mine off.
The still wasn't running I was only proofing. Strange shit there..
Was it a co2 or ethanol detector?

Just a co2 detector near the floor of my RV.
American By Birth, Biker by Choice, Country by the Grace Of God.
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http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view
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Kareltje
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Kareltje »

Hanson423 wrote:And it's not like the alcohol will explode right? or will it explode of the fire get into the still?
I promised to try that, but it takes more time and effort than I expected.
I want to set up a still with an open outlet and then try to ignite it. But my first test did not result in enough alcoholvapour.
Trying to find another setup. Of course without much danger.

But how is your situation and what is the opinion of your wife now?
Hanson423
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Hanson423 »

Kareltje wrote:
Hanson423 wrote:And it's not like the alcohol will explode right? or will it explode of the fire get into the still?
I promised to try that, but it takes more time and effort than I expected.
I want to set up a still with an open outlet and then try to ignite it. But my first test did not result in enough alcoholvapour.
Trying to find another setup. Of course without much danger.

But how is your situation and what is the opinion of your wife now?
She's good with it now! I never did get a detector, I'm tomorrow I'm running still for the 3rd or 4th time. All is well. Haha
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by apdb »

For my wife, it took me finally setting up and running water through my system with her there to witness the process. I walked her through every safety feature of my still and safety regiment I follow. I showed her what it looks like when the cooling system fails and allowed vapour to escape to see what happens and how it is fixed. I walked her through my whole safety checklist. What she needed from me was to see how the whole process works. She is a visual person, so once she seen the whole setup, it removed a lot of her fears. She confessed she was expecting to see something that looked like a meth lab or mad scientist hard at work. I finally got the go ahead to run my gear, but of course she laid down the rules. No kids in the house, cleaned up before anyone came home, etc etc.
I didn't tell her Ive been distilling at home for a couple years already. :D :D

Aaron
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Kareltje
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by Kareltje »

These are good stories. Typically for life as a whole.

It takes only one sentence to scare people, but it takes a day to explain what really is the case. Luckily your wifes are ready to accept your explanation. :clap:
In real life a lot of people are too impatient or lazy to listen to the explanation. As if ignorance is a virtue or a bliss. :twisted:
RippoZero
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Re: Co2/ethanol detector

Post by RippoZero »

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 32&t=65390

Details me building a ethanol detector.
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