100% Steamed Rolled Barley

[shadylane]

Found a 50lb bag of Steamed Rolled Barley at the feed store.
I've never made a 100% barley mash before. Figured now was a good time to try.

50 pounds of ground steamed barley
2 ounces of BA100 Alpha-amylase
2 ounces of GA100 Glucoamylase


I wasn't sure if the barley needed grinding, so I put a handful in a pot of hot water and simmered it for awhile.
The barley rehydrated and looked, like barley.
Figured grinding would be needed.

Ground the 50lb with a burr-grinder, and started boiling 15ga of water with added calcium carbonate.
Added water, barley and a little alpha-amylase to the fermenter while stirring with the drill.
End up using around 25ga of water and 1oz of alpha. If I hadn't used alpha-amylase the mash would have turned into a solid mass.
The mash temp was 175f, that's above the recommended 150-165f but the enzymes lasted long enough to help.
Dropped in the wort chiller and stirred until the temp was 163f, then added another ounce of alpha while stirring.
Within minutes the mash went from an almost solid mass to a soupy oatmeal.
I kept the temp around 160 for 3 hours and stirred it several times.

Now for the saccharification.
Cooled the mash to the recommended 135F and added 2oz of Glucoamylase while stirring.
The 2oz is a little bit over twice the recommended dose.
My pH papers are old and almost worthless, so I used extra enzymes in case the pH wasn't right.
The mash has now been sitting over night, Hope its cooled enough to pitch the yeast starter.

[rtalbigr]

I've used a LOT of steam rolled barley but always with some malted 2-row. It makes a great whiskey as a single grain and a great bourbon with corn. I grind it to a coarse flour. The high temps you are using are unnecessary. I re-hydrate with hot tap water for a while and then bring it to 148-150 F for about 30 minutes. Cooled with a wort chiller and I ready to pitch the yeast.

Big R

[shadylane]

The store bought enzymes have a different temperature range than malted barely does.
Next time I'll use a lower temp. I've been cooking with corn and got in the habit of using high temps,
Hopefully I didn't extract to much flavor from the barley husks.

[shadylane]

12 hours after pitching the yeast and the fermentation looks like it's at a full boil.
Wish I knew what the SG was but the mash is too thick to check to test it.

[shadylane]

62 hours ago, I pitched a 2 gallon yeast starter in the almost 30 gallon mash.
I've never had a fermentation this aggressive before. The cap has begun to fall, the SG is around 1.015, the temp is 83f
The mash is still actively fermenting, but at a slower rate.

Edited: Were I said 12 hours on the previous post it should have been 10

[Halfbaked]

Great find! What did you have to pay for the 50lb bag? Sounds real easy. Good luck with it. I bet it will be tastey.

[RevSpaminator]

Sounds like you're makin beer.

Seriously, barley and ale yeast are meant for each other and if I remember correctly, bread yeast is just a form of ale yeast.

[just sayin]

Sound like the makin's of a "single pot stilled Irish whiskey". The Irish were taxed on malt, so being crafty, they used just enough malt to convert the unmalted barley. Redbreast is the only example I have been able to find in the US. I think they age it in sherry casks. Way more favor, depth and complexity than standard Irish whiskey. Great stuff, closet thing I have to a favorite.

I am looking forward to hearing how your steamed barley works.

Good luck and I hope it is a tasty dram.

Just Sayin'

[shadylane]

I got it for $23 at a nearby feed store. In October they will have barley grain for $15.
Said they don't keep it in stock during the warmer months due to bugs and weevils.
I've been lurking on the beer brewing forums

Posting when Just Sayin was

[shadylane]

single pot stilled Irish whiskey

[shadylane]

Stripped the mash this morning, 2.7 gallons of low-wines @ 38% after a 8oz foreshots cut.
Kind of disappointed in the flavor, Hopefully after the spirit run it will be better.
I think rtalbigr was right. I cooked the barley at to high of a temperature.
Squeezing the liquid out of the mash was a pain in the ass, it was as bad, if not worst than a corn mash.
I'll try again and maybe, have better luck next time.

[rbw65]

Age In White Oak Barrel and see what happens , if u use small like 5-10 litre ck every 2 months for taste and color.
My first run of all grain, MALT, came out AT 150 proof first run average.

[shadylane]

Did the spirit run and it's been sitting on toasted/charted oak for a week.
100% barley converted with enzymes, tastes different from anything I've done before.
Don't know how to describe it, but compared to a sugar head at the same proof, it doesn't have the burn.
The taste of barley made it through the stripping and spirit runs.
But, the phenolic tastes of the grain husks did also.
Hopefully time and oak will do it's job.

I'll try this experiment again. And do it a little different.
Lower temps, more time and pH control is on the list of changes.

Any suggestions?

[SoMo]

Keep it at man it sounds good, definitely try with 6row the extra husk makes squeezing a bit easier.

[shadylane]

Your right. If the barely had been crushed instead of run through a grinder It would have made for easier squeezing.
But I was using feed barely, instead of malted and wanted to get maximum conversion using enzymes.
I'll try this experiment again. The next time the unmalted grain will be crushed.
The temps will be at the lower limit for the enzymes and I'll use time and pH to make up for the low temps.
Should make for a smoother Irish potcheen, even before the aging.

[SoMo]

You make try some backset too, it does help to soften and break down the grain. The AG backset works wonders on cracked corn, I'm getting higher SG pre soaking in hot backset right off the still.

[shadylane]

Just bought two more bags of Steamed Rolled Barley.
This time the mashing protocol will be according to the instructions that came with the enzymes.
I have fresh pH papers, frozen backset from the last batch, calcium carbonate and oyster shells for any pH adjustments.
The first experiment with rolled barley came out pretty good in spite of my mistakes.
I'll do better this time.
I'm open to suggestions for what yeast to use.
Hate to admit it but lately I've been using bakers yeast and fermenting at around 80f
Thinking about using Irish ale yeast and fermenting at a lower temp.

[shadylane]

Definitely getting better with this experiment.
The 12 gallon stripping runs are almost finished.
Had one or two minor pukes.
Samples from the middle hearts are promising.
Grainy and earthy. Given time it could be consumed as-is.
I've been tossing 8oz fore-shots and running until the distillate began to get cloudy.
Once all the alcohol has been stripped, I'll figure out what to rerun and whether to triple distill.

edited:
Been adding enough sugar and water to some of the spent grains to get 7% alcohol.
Since the grain has been squeezed and messed in a very unsanitary way, It will probably get a major infection.
But I'll find out.

[DuckofDeath]

I buy unmalted barley from local farmers for around $8 a 50lb bag.

[shadylane]

Wish I could find barley that cheap around here.
I'm in corn, wheat, soybeans and rice country.
Ask for barley at the feed store and you'll get a dumb look.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Squeezing the liquid out of the mash was a pain in the ass, it was as bad, if not worst than a corn mash.

I did a 100% steam rolled barley recently, and I really like the taste. I'd like to do a larger batch, but lord howdy my batch was a super PITA to strain! Slippery, slimey, and really gummed up the straining bag.
I agree that it was worse than my ag corn batches. But, I love the taste of the final spirit, so I might get sucked back into this again....
I used enzymes last time, maybe this time I will try a 50/50 steam rolled and malted barley, and see if that eased up the glop factor.

[shadylane]

I've found out the hard way.
The finer the grind, the worst the squeezing.
It's probably better to only break up the Rolled Barley.
The beer brewers are laughing at this point!
The efficiency of the mash will suffer a little, but that's better than me getting Popeye arms.

[shadylane]

Sampling some of the hearts from the first spirit run while posting.
Will make very wide cuts, dilute to 40% and run it a third time.
Poitín here we go.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Btw, I used a lot of my steam rolled barley in my last couple generations of UJ, and it tastes great. I really like the 100% AG I did with them, too. As challenging as the process was, I will definitely be finding a way to work with these grains...

[shadylane]

I hate to admit it.
The shine made with 100% barley is good. And will probably improve with age.
A Rumsky experiment, with the spent grain, used in a yeast bomb and dark brown sugar was definitely better.

[casper the Irish]

I read thescottish whisky stillers prefer yeast from Dublin, the trub after Guinness is brewed

Jameson on their website say they prefer a mash at 15% Brix and ferment above 25° for a fast fermentation. Strip run after 4 days max even if still bubbling to avoid unwelcome congeners.

Note there are two rolled barleys on sale for horse feed, it's the slightly more yellow one is good since its hot rolled to begin starch conversion to sugars. It doesn't need milled, sugars dissolve easy and husks preclude cooking anyway. Add to hot water with the malt for a short rest. I prefer to keep other grains off the bill and blend after ageing. Corn doesn't seem to improve after 3 years in the way barley continues to do, so corn can use additions like rye or wheat. Some Irish makers blend in corn whiskey aged till it's sweet, less than 3 years old

I don't grind the rolled barley since its very soluble, the malt does need coarse mill. Add 50:50 mix to water at 75°C for a 40' rest below 68°C above 66°. Fermenting on grain or BiB can work, but sparking is best even if you have spacious fermenter, the proteins and trub mixed with grain makes it harder to separate at the end without leaving the beer settling.

Two good Irish whiskers are Jameson and Tullamore Dew. On the Jameson website they aim for mash of Brix 15% and fast ferment of 3 days to avoid unwelcome congeners. Their favourite yeast is Guinness trub. I presume they strip still the beer even while its fermenting.
They blend 3 stillings: potstill barley hearts, weak feints refluxed at 94.5abv and best feints added to the next strip, strong feints run with hearts (2nd potstill or refluxed), and just maybe selected weak feints added to taste to dilute the hearts for cask. I know there's some oloroso sherry in the oak for black bushmills premium malt.

[Honest_Liberty]

sheesh, over five years. Here I go again with the resurrection.

Ok, I've been reading and trying to find a way to do an all grain vodka for cheaper than malted grains from the LHBS. From what I've been reading, Steam rolled barley should be soaked as is, not even coarse ground, sparged even if BIAB.

If I want to hit 7% SG, and using alpha and gluco, what would be a reasonable approach?
2.5lbs / gallon, 150F steep in a cooler for a few hours, pull out, rinse with enough gallons fresh water to "sparge" and bring it to what would have been 2 lbs/gallon? I might capture the water that comes through the sparge and recycle that a few times until it comes out clear?

I would like to ferment off the grains. I'd likely just use 1118 to make a super clean product for vodka.
If anyone sees this and would weigh in, I would like to know if I'm on the right path.

[shadylane]

Sounds like a good experiment for some one.
Crimped oats, converted with enzymes and sparged for fermenting off the grain.

[Honest_Liberty]

Sounds like a good experiment for some one.
Crimped oats, converted with enzymes and sparged for fermenting off the grain.

I'm your huckleberry, albeit, potentially at my own frustration.

[shadylane]

Some were I got side tracked.
I'm talking about oats, instead of rolled barley
But then oats are easier to get in my neck of the woods.