Toasted Malt in grain bills

[Steep-n-Rocky]

I am really intrigued by WhiskyD's post in the Maillard discussion:

At our distillery, Corsair, we use a lot of dark malts and believe heavily in the maillard reaction improving the finish of our whiskeys. We have experimented with about 60 different malts. One of my personal favorites is chocolate rye malt, if you add just 1% to the mash bill it comes over distillation and enhances the finish. I also like caramel 120. In international competitions, whiskey judges will judge your spirits on the nose, the body, and the finish. Dark malts add a slight caramel or chocolate note to the finish. Almost all our award winners had at least a hint of a dark malt in the mashbill. I really like the book "Beer and Ingredients II, The Ultimate Beer Ingredient Guide, What Does What.: Take Your Homebrew to the Next Level, Brewers Ingredient Guide." The kindle version is only $1.99.

I am getting ready to start "something new" and am looking at toasted malts. I malt my own barley and am reading up on how to toast grain. I work primarily with oats, rye, barley, and corn. Question:
what success have you guys had with adding toasted malts to your grain bills?

[thecroweater]

you are talking about as far as flavour goes yeah? toasted malts have a DP of nufik and carramalt only has some of the tiny bit of sugar from the grain pre-converted and nothing else (no enzymes)

[Steep-n-Rocky]

Right, not thinking about Lintner value but the flavor. What I make is unique and I have to admit that my bourbon will never be as good as 1792, Booker's, etc. What I can do however is make something different, something that no one else makes. Hopefully I learn something along the way too.

[Steep-n-Rocky]

As an experiment I am toasting malted barley, 400 F for 30 minutes to try for a Copper Malt. Here is the grain bill (10 gal to 23 lb) I am thinking about:

7 lb Malted barley (self malted so estimating 100 L to be conservative)
2 lb Copper malt
5 lb corn
5 lb rye
4 lb oats

I like the floral notes of oats (cannot think of another way to put it) but love the spicy rye notes. My hope is that 2 lb will be enough to bring over so toasted notes.

[kiwi Bruce]

Somewhere upstairs I have the chart with a times and roasting temps for all the colored malts and barley. When I get a chance I'll dig it out for you, if you don't already have it. I've used crystal malt with lightly peated malt in a highland single Malt style whisky. It took a bit longer to come to the maturation point that I like, and I think most of the taste was lost to the wood. It did leave the sweetish honey taste one gets from a Cardhu, but as i said, only as a dog, It was lost to the wood. Kiwi Bruce

[Steep-n-Rocky]

Here is the info I relied on, http://barleypopmaker.info/tag/home-roa ... late-malt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow. I mean to check out the e-book mentioned this week.

[kiwi Bruce]

They have some good photos there. I'll post the chart later tonight. I've roasted my own barley, which is the body flavor in a porter and Irish stout, but I've not distilled with it , YET. Kiwi Bruce

[kiwi Bruce]

S-n-R Here are the Promised Charts.

[kiwi Bruce]

S-n-R Here are the Promised Charts.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I have had good results by using 5%-7% specialty grains of total grain bill.
I've used smoked malts, crystal malts, and special B malt, all came through to final spirit.
Doesn't take too much to have an impact.

[yakattack]

That there is gold kiwi Bruce. Thanks :p

[kiwi Bruce]

You are welcome, I've used this for the darker malts and the table is true. Kiwi Bruce

[midlife-u-turn]

I've used a number of specialty malts in the beer process so in a previous all barley whiskey I put 5 lbs caramel malt with 25 lbs 2 row. I don't have an all 2 row to compare it to but from my beer experiences I'd say the caramel malt flavor carried over very nicely. It turned out so good I'm going to repeat it and leave it in the grain bill.

[kiwi Bruce]

Steep-n-Rocky you may have really hit on something here.

[thecroweater]

If you want an interesting flavour from oats try malting them and gristing them green for a pleasant earthy hay note to it

[Steep-n-Rocky]

Thanks Kiwi Bruce, the chart is fantastic! I did four cookie sheets of copper malt and the house smells fantastic (to me). With a Copper malt under my belt, I am going to try a darker malt too. I had not considered malting oats but that would be a new frontier for me. I considered smoking malt too but that will have to wait for another day.

[kiwi Bruce]

Only glad I could help. Kiwi Bruce

[Acolyte]

I did a bourbon with 10% roasted malt and I absolutely agree about it coming through the finish. It reminds me of camping and winters, sweet and smoky.

Now I want to go make more...

[kiwi Bruce]

It was homemade bourbon that turned my around on bourbons completely. Before I made one I disliked them. So I tried one, with a simple recipe from HD, and it was fantastic. I let it age for three months, it sat on two used bourbon staves. The thing I liked was the subtle corn flavor came over in mine, that I can't taste in a store bought bourbon.

[bearriver]

At our distillery, Corsair

Sorry to get off topic, but you people are amazing. It would seem that Derek literally wrote the book on alternate grains. Keep up the good works and THANK YOU for sharing with us. I will be paying extra attention to your contributions in the future.

Edit: Thank you Kiwi. Those charts are fantastic.

[MDH]

I am really intrigued by WhiskyD's post in the Maillard discussion:

At our distillery, Corsair, we use a lot of dark malts and believe heavily in the maillard reaction improving the finish of our whiskeys. We have experimented with about 60 different malts. One of my personal favorites is chocolate rye malt, if you add just 1% to the mash bill it comes over distillation and enhances the finish. I also like caramel 120. In international competitions, whiskey judges will judge your spirits on the nose, the body, and the finish. Dark malts add a slight caramel or chocolate note to the finish. Almost all our award winners had at least a hint of a dark malt in the mashbill. I really like the book "Beer and Ingredients II, The Ultimate Beer Ingredient Guide, What Does What.: Take Your Homebrew to the Next Level, Brewers Ingredient Guide." The kindle version is only $1.99.

I am getting ready to start "something new" and am looking at toasted malts. I malt my own barley and am reading up on how to toast grain. I work primarily with oats, rye, barley, and corn. Question:
what success have you guys had with adding toasted malts to your grain bills?

Personally my favorite malt to work with is Maris Otter kilned to 20 lovis. A local brewer uses it in his Scottish Ale and helped me get a bag.

I know what you mean about chocolate rye. It only takes a few percent. I learned the hard way that anything over 5% can be aggressive and make the profile unbalanced.

[masonsjax]

Corsair triple smoke is fantastic and has inspired me to make a smoked whiskey for my next batch. I have a bunch of beechwood rauch malt and some oak smoked wheat malt I'll use for the first attempt. I might throw a little dark crystal in there now after reading this thread.

[firewater69]

great thread! I have been using alternative grains for a while now, I've learned to start out around 2-3% of the bill for the first time around on darker grains, then adjust the next batch accordingly. I learned that lesson the hard way.

[rager]

i think im about to toast some wheat and barley

those charts are awesome kb. it really gives me a guide line to what im about to experiment with

cheers

[kiwi Bruce]

You are welcome rager, only happy to help. I've done this myself, with great results.