Malted corn lintner

All about grains. Malting, smoking, grinding and other preparations.
Which grains are hot, which are not.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Steep-n-Rocky
Swill Maker
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:18 pm

Malted corn lintner

Post by Steep-n-Rocky »

Anyone have a ballpark number for the lintner value of malted corn?
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Dnderhead »

about 30-35 has enough it convert its self...
Steep-n-Rocky
Swill Maker
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:18 pm

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Steep-n-Rocky »

I would have thought it would be higher as a friend as been making corn whiskey with 50% malted and 50% not malted and is getting full production.
Large Sarge
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: Mostly here, but some times over there.

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Large Sarge »

I believe that 35 is the threshold to completely self convert.
If you look like food, don't be surprised when you get eaten.
Steep-n-Rocky
Swill Maker
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:18 pm

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Steep-n-Rocky »

Found this link that may be of interest if you are interested in corn malt lintner values.
http://books.google.com/books?id=7WbOAA ... ts&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Xnerd
Swill Maker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Xnerd »

Ok here is question:

First: I am drying a 25lb batch of sprouted corn now.
I was thinking a bit on how to go about running it as I have very little experience with all grains.
I have only done a few batches now so I am really a noob to the whole process.

If I use all corn how do I cook it to brake up the starches?
Would I just go the malting temp and try to hold it there as long as I can?

It seems that steeping the non malted grains a higher heat really does do a good job at starch molecules from the cells.

Will using all corn dramatically lower the conversion seeing as how I cant cook it a high temps?
Xnerd
Swill Maker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Xnerd »

This was written to clarify for the new person

It seems to me (correct me please if I am wrong) that you would use additional corn to your malted despite the fact that the DP of corn is low.\
Otherwise how do you cook it enough to release its own starches thoroughly? You would kill (denature) the enzymes if not.

Simply grinding the corn even to the state of being flour does not completely separate the starch molecules..... Thats why we cook then apart.

SO what I would try (just as a guess mid you) is cooking an equal amount of corn as you would with any grain and at 150f stir your malted corn in.
Again this is just a guess and YES it would make a gigantic grain bed for sure.

I know Dnderhead would be able to clarify this.

Any thoughts along these lines Dnderhead ?
Last edited by Xnerd on Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by rad14701 »

Xnerd, the malting process uses the enzymes within the grain itself to perform the conversion of starches to fermentable sugars... Perhaps a bit more research is in order... The subject of malting grains has been fairly well beaten to death here in the forums, as well as on the parent site, so finding relevant information shouldn't prove difficult...
Xnerd
Swill Maker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Xnerd »

rad14701 wrote:Xnerd, the malting process uses the enzymes within the grain itself to perform the conversion of starches to fermentable sugars... Perhaps a bit more research is in order... The subject of malting grains has been fairly well beaten to death here in the forums, as well as on the parent site, so finding relevant information shouldn't prove difficult...

I know the process....

But every recipe and procedure is to brake the starches up using higher heat than the the enzymes can survive in.
Every time I try to research anything the forums search function tells me to try later so I have given up.
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Dnderhead »

you cook the raw corn .not the malted.
Xnerd
Swill Maker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Xnerd »

Dnderhead wrote:you cook the raw corn .not the malted.

I know this.. I was responding to the guy that posted above that said this:

"I would have thought it would be higher as a friend as been making corn whiskey with 50% malted and 50% not malted and is getting full production."

I suggested that the beginner is mentally not understanding that just because the malted corn has the ability to process its own starches, does not mean that you use only malted corn.
50 / 50 actually makes sense as in this statement.

When new people see statements such as (the Lintner/dp value of malted corn is 30-35, which is enough to convert is on starches) they get confused and think (ok so I only use malted corn)

I dont always express my self well. sorry. :(

You guys have helped me understand the process which it turns out is really pretty simple after all is said and done.
You have to remember that new people, dont know anything about this. Most of them including myself years ago had to look up the terminology even.

Now that I have done this half of a dozen times I know that if I boil the malt it denatures and wont work. If I dont boil some sort of adjunct grain to get the starches out not much is going to happen when I stir in the malt. But a new-comer might think such as I did before that all you have to do so cook the malt at 150 and it will eat it self up. it wont for the most part.

This is where the fellow up top got confused I think.
rad14701
retired
Posts: 20865
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:46 pm
Location: New York, USA

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by rad14701 »

Xnerd wrote:You have to remember that new people, dont know anything about this. Most of them including myself years ago had to look up the terminology even.
"New people" are expected to do what we consider mandatory research... The answers are here if you learn how to search properly... When the out-of-the-can Search doesn't work, try the Forum Google Search instead... Leave the site: portion in place and just append the search phrase after it...
User avatar
MitchyBourbon
Distiller
Posts: 2304
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:03 pm

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by MitchyBourbon »

I don't know the lintner value of malted corn but if 30 to 35 is accurate then there won't be enough enzymes to convert anything more than itself. That means a 50/50 would not make sense. Half the corn would be converted. As for mashing malted corn, you would do this at a temp favorable for conversion of starches to sugar using the enzymes from the malted corn. 150 f.

There is plenty of info on this subject. Try doing an "HD Google search" for malted corn. I did and found lot of good info. Here's one of them.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7022737

Hope this clears things a bit.
Last edited by MitchyBourbon on Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
I'm goin the distance...
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Dnderhead »

corn malt can be as high as 100L but that's using the right corn and done under the right conditions.do not expect this with home malted corn or any other home malted grain.
Xnerd
Swill Maker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Xnerd »

MitchyBourbon wrote:I don't know the lintner value of malted corn but if 30 to 35 is accurate then there won't be enough enzymes to convert anything more than itself. That means a 50/50 would not make sense. Half the corn would be converted. As for mashing malted corn, you would do this at a temp favorable for conversion of starches to sugar using the enzymes from the malted corn. 150 f.

There is plenty of info on this subject. Try doing an "HD Google search" for malted corn. I did and found lot of good info. Here's one of them.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7022737

Hope this clears things a bit.

I guess my thoughts on it , is based on the lower temperatures you would have to sustain as to not kill the enzymes.
My thought process was : If you had 50% non malted that you cooked at a higher temperature prior to adding the malted corn there would be more "free" starches available for the enzymes to "easily" convert. I was under the impression by reading many many MANY posts that the reason you need to cook your adjunct grains at a much higher temperature was due to the fact that 150F was not sufficient to separate the the starch molecules. It would seem to me that the enzymes in the malted corn when released into the water would not care where the starches originated.

I did just find a post by Dnderhead that stated that the correct procedure would be to use ONLY the malted corn at keep it at 150 for a much longer time. That too makes sense to me, if corn will eventually give up its starches at that temperature. Since he states this I do believe him 100% as he has always given me real good info. The fact that I have in the past misunderstood this info from time to time is my fault not his :) Now knowing this I can see that any additional corn would be a waist of corn.

The Google function does in deed work better for these searches than the simple search function. (thanks)
Dnderhead
Angel's Share
Angel's Share
Posts: 13666
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: up north

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Dnderhead »

malted grain develop many enzymes besides alpha and bata amylase
like protease that brake down proteins others that brake the cell walls.
so when using all malt its not necessary to "cook" ..
Xnerd
Swill Maker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Xnerd »

Thanks Dnder, thats good info for me to research into more.
I just started work on an big old pot to insulate to test some things out.

If anyone has a link to Dnderheads two bucket method please post it to me.
I have done the searching but I find a hundred thousand references to it but not the original.

Getting some Bin-run grain this week and want to follow it close.
Uncle Jemima
Swill Maker
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:58 pm

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Uncle Jemima »

Xnerd wrote:Thanks Dnder, thats good info for me to research into more.
I just started work on an big old pot to insulate to test some things out.

If anyone has a link to Dnderheads two bucket method please post it to me.
I have done the searching but I find a hundred thousand references to it but not the original.

Getting some Bin-run grain this week and want to follow it close.
Yeah. I've tried the site search. I've used google search. Yahoo search. I've found lots of posts that reference the 2 bucket method. I've found lots of posts that say "Do a search for the two bucket method" never actually found the two bucket method explained though.

Fortunately I found a lot of other good information about malting and all grain along the way. That's the great thing about this place. I'm always learning. As far as the actual method. Figured I'll just search other sites about malting and learn as much as I can. Never found the method and asking questions that were answered somewhere here before is discouraged.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... t&start=12
This was one thread I found that referenced it and gave other useful links.

http://xb-70.com/beer/chicha/ch_malti.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
This is another link I found that gives a pretty thorough description of malting corn.

I'm guessing it involves using one bucket with holes placed above another bucket to allow excess water to slowly drain. Keeping the grains moist but not covered after the initial soaking period.

Here's my plan for two buckets based on that second link.

1. I'm going to place my corn in a bucket with small holes drilled in the bottom. I'll place that bucket inside another with no holes.

2. I'll soak for two days draining and rinsing twice a day (if possible) at least once a day and turning the corn to avoid mold.

3. After the soak I'll suspend the bucket with holes above my solid bucket so I can keep the corn moist and let the excess water drain out into the other bucket.

Then I'll basically follow the advice/directions in that second link. Not sure if this is actually the "Two bucket method" or not and not sure if it'll work.

That's how I plan on trying it once I'm on my feet again (major knee surgery 3 weeks ago). Or maybe somebody will chime in and tell me if its right, wrong or crazy.

Or you could try it and let me know how it goes. :)

Good luck and good responses. I learned some more already today and it's still early.
I’m Uncle Jemima. You probably know my wife, Aunt Jemima, the Pancake Lady.
Uncle Jemima
Swill Maker
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:58 pm

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Uncle Jemima »

If you scroll to the bottom of that thread I linked PrairiePiss links several other really good threads. The thread I linked also has some very good info about the all corn process too.
I’m Uncle Jemima. You probably know my wife, Aunt Jemima, the Pancake Lady.
Xnerd
Swill Maker
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:52 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Xnerd »

Uncle Jemima wrote:If you scroll to the bottom of that thread I linked PrairiePiss links several other really good threads. The thread I linked also has some very good info about the all corn process too.


Thank you for the help UJ

Yeah I did he google site search and there are so many reference to the method that you cant wade through them all.
The method should be a parent site article or a sticky,
new_moonshiner
Trainee
Posts: 964
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:15 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by new_moonshiner »

Xnerd wrote:
Dnderhead wrote:you cook the raw corn .not the malted.

I know this.. I was responding to the guy that posted above that said this:

"I would have thought it would be higher as a friend as been making corn whiskey with 50% malted and 50% not malted and is getting full production."

I suggested that the beginner is mentally not understanding that just because the malted corn has the ability to process its own starches, does not mean that you use only malted corn.
50 / 50 actually makes sense as in this statement.

When new people see statements such as (the Lintner/dp value of malted corn is 30-35, which is enough to convert is on starches) they get confused and think (ok so I only use malted corn)

I dont always express my self well. sorry. :(

You guys have helped me understand the process which it turns out is really pretty simple after all is said and done.
You have to remember that new people, dont know anything about this. Most of them including myself years ago had to look up the terminology even.

Now that I have done this half of a dozen times I know that if I boil the malt it denatures and wont work. If I dont boil some sort of adjunct grain to get the starches out not much is going to happen when I stir in the malt. But a new-comer might think such as I did before that all you have to do so cook the malt at 150 and it will eat it self up. it wont for the most part.

This is where the fellow up top got confused I think.

Care to share little info on this please ? I have done several 100 percent all corn malt, I holding the malt in insulated barrel overnight starting at 155 F on the temp .. one thing though I always get a small yeild .. my question is are you steeping the non malted corn at higher temps and for how long if so ? thank you for any info
NM.
abardente
Novice
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:36 pm

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by abardente »

Dnderhead wrote:corn malt can be as high as 100L but that's using the right corn and done under the right conditions.do not expect this with home malted corn or any other home malted grain.
Do you know where to find information about the right corn and right conditions? I don't expect to do it at home, I'd just like to read up on it if there is anything written, I haven't found much in my own searches.

I spoke to someone at this place last week: http://www.farmhousemalt.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow and they said they are have been trying to malt corn but haven't been successful yet though to check back in 6 months maybe they will have it figured out. I didn't ask what are the obstacles they're encountering.
Loganmeister
Novice
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: Hell, I don't know what day it is, how can you expect me to know where I am.

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Loganmeister »

Xnerd wrote:
rad14701 wrote:Xnerd, the malting process uses the enzymes within the grain itself to perform the conversion of starches to fermentable sugars... Perhaps a bit more research is in order... The subject of malting grains has been fairly well beaten to death here in the forums, as well as on the parent site, so finding relevant information shouldn't prove difficult...

I know the process....

But every recipe and procedure is to brake the starches up using higher heat than the the enzymes can survive in.
Every time I try to research anything the forums search function tells me to try later so I have given up.
I second that..........searching is like other forums......difficult and the hours spent reading several posts hoping to find the answer is informative, but hardly on target as tangents start to fly in almost all threads.
Add the sugar to the water, built a fire make it hotter, from the hopper to the copper and it's moonshine
User avatar
Halfbaked
retired
Posts: 3398
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:51 pm

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Halfbaked »

I understand sometimes that searching gets frustrating but almost every time I do it I learn something that I didn't know or maybe my next question that I wanted to know was answered before I asked it. Most of the time I find what I am looking for. Woodshed is a corn malter and he said in a post a while back that he does a 70/30 all corn. I assumed he was saying 70% malted corn but he was saying 30% malt and gets good conversion. I even asked because I thought it was wrong. I don't know what the numbers were and I don't think he gave them. If you didn't get what I was telling you, do you search and look for woodsheds posts. He has several. There are others that are good but try this search and see what happens. Not spoon fed but close. Good luck!
Hordrill
Novice
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:34 am

Re: Malted corn lintner

Post by Hordrill »

I use the Popcorn recipe. 25 lbs. of cracked corn. Cooked for 2 hrs on boiling 25 gals of water. Then add more water to cool down to 150 deg. Add 50 lbs sugar, more water to cool down to 100/120-deg. Add a gallon sack (about 6 1/2 lbs) of malted corn. Let work off. (I test my mash with iodine before & after the malted corn is added to see if all the starch conversion has taken place). This recipe is simple and works every time. For the cracked and malted corn, I use white corn. Just like Popcorn. Makes some good stuff!! I know where to buy malted white corn also!!!
Post Reply