Interesting read about mashing

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shadylane
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Interesting read about mashing

Post by shadylane » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:46 pm

I've seen these charts posted before, this must be were they came from.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... Conversion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by srs787 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:31 pm

Yes it is a good read. Very important if you want your AG to finish at 1.005 or at 1.025. Good post. srs

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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by shadylane » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:58 pm

I've seen the chart re-posted many times, but couldn't understand why un-malted barley had three different temps.
With the words of the OP to go with the graphs. It makes more sense. And leads to more head scratching.

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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by Red Rim » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:09 pm

Damn fine article! I am going to have to read this again, when I am totally sober.

One point I gleaned, and has been mentioned in the last week or so on this forum, is that a lower pH helps break things down in your mash. Therefore using hot backset can help breakdown your corn into starches and aid in the enzymatic reaction.
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by MichiganCornhusker » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:46 am

Very nice, thanks for posting
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by okie » Thu Jan 15, 2015 2:14 pm

I just read this. Damn fellas, this is like my college courses. I'm going to have to digest this slowly.
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by DSmith78 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:42 pm

Nearly 5 years late to the party but it's one I'm glad to have found. Great article which I have bookmarked.
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by Old_Brian » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:33 pm

Thanks for your comment DSmith78 for a new member like me, having these interesting nuggets bubbled up to the surface and shoved under my nose is a real help. Shadylane, thanks for the original post.
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by shadylane » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:40 pm

Your welcome

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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by DSmith78 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:17 am

I'm also a newbie and there are sooo many of those nuggets here!
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by cayars » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:11 am

I'd take what you learn from that article then follow it up with more research as that article and the graph is flawed. It has the wrong temps listed for gelatinization, etc. Anyone around here that does all grains will tell you 77 C is no where near hot enough for corn to properly gelatinize. You would want to bring your corn up to a boil for example or pour your corn into a rolling boil water (if using cooler or unheated mash tuns).

Lots of good info here on the forums about this type of thing.
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by Single Malt Yinzer » Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:34 am

There's nothing wrong with the article from a science perspective, but it doesn't talk about the practical part of it. Corn will gelatinize at the temps listed, just really slowly. You're right, boiling will make the process go faster. It's even noted in the chart that it works better being boiled.

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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by 8Ball » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:55 am

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?ti ... Conversion
pH and Brewing Water
A major source of confusion that commonly arises in the discussion of mash pH is that it changes with temperature. Mashes behave like weak acids and they disassociate more (i.e. free more H+ ions) as the temperature rises. It has been shown that the pH of a mash at 65C is about 0.35 pH units lower and about 0.45 units lower at mash out temperatures (75C) compared to its pH at room temperature (25C) [Briggs, 2004]. The pH optimum of α-amylase has been determined at 5.3 in room temperature experiments. But it mashing its optimum is commonly reported to be 5.7. The reason for this is that the mash pH is commonly measured in a cooled sample of the mash. Measurement at mash temperatures is possible but common pH testing equipment like test strips and pH meters are designed for pH measurement in cooled samples.
The proper mash pH does more than allowing for optimal enzyme activity it also provides the basis for the boil and cast-out wort pH. The boil pH tends to be at or slightly higher than the mash pH and the cast-out wort pH is 0.1 - 0.2 units lower than the boil pH.


So my take on the above is unless your pH meter can take readings above room temperatures, you need to adjust your readings accordingly per the above reference. If you allow your mash sample to cool down when using high temp enzymes for cooking corn, then a reading of 5.3 at ambient is actually around 5.65-5.75 in the pot.

Based on this info, I have been using my ambient readings to add calcium carbonate for buffering unnecessarily. Please correct me if this is not the case.

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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by cayars » Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:20 pm

That sounds about right. You pretty much always want to assume measurements are taking at room temperature unless specified otherwise, then adjusted from that depending on instrument calibration temp.

I take samples in little 200 ML (half pint) mason jars which are perfect for this. I just put them in a bath of cold water (bucket, bowl, etc) and they cool right off. Obviously the closer you get to room temp (or calibration temp) the less your result will be off so even if the temp is still higher then normal it puts you in a much closer ball park. I can then use the 200 ML sample for starch conversion checking, SG reading, PH or any other checks needed.

Most cheap PH meters probably shouldn't be used in hot temps anyway.
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Re: Interesting read about mashing

Post by Tennessee_Spirits » Fri May 08, 2020 7:37 am

pH optimum is also different for bacterial enzymes. SEBStar Htl has optimum of 6.0. The literature did not specify the temperature so it was standard. Many pH meters have temperature compensation built in.

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