Tobacco?

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Bagasso
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bagasso »

aceswired wrote:Caution and paranoia aren't interchangeable.
Nothing paranoid about my posts. Just info.
as I see it.
Just an opinion.

A video showing that a "considerable" amount does come over and research showing that the LD50 is higher but still relatively low are just indicators that things might have to be looked at closer.

Personally I don't care what anyone does in the privacy of their homes but the forum rules are that safety comes first.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

Sigh.
Bagasso
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bagasso »

aceswired wrote:Sigh.
Sigh all you want. The incomplete info you bring from the ECF is just that, incomplete.
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shadylane
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by shadylane »

If your going to use tobacco for the fermentable sugars.
Here's a couple of questions, you need to think about.

Are you going to use only the sugar from the tobacco for all the fermentable's ?
What is the sugar content of green and dried tobacco leafs ?
How much do's that sugar cost ?
How you going to ferment the tobacco ?
What effect will it have on the yeast ?
How are you going to squeeze the alcohol out of the fermented tobacco when it's done ?
Or distill the soggy glob of tobacco "on the grain"
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

Bagasso wrote:
aceswired wrote:Sigh.
Sigh all you want. The incomplete info you bring from the ECF is just that, incomplete.
After your claim about nic in extractions, that might not be an avenue you want to go down....
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bagasso »

aceswired wrote:After your claim about nic in extractions, that might not be an avenue you want to go down....
Why? I have been extracting tobacco for a while now.

Been at ECF since 2009. I know the difference between NETs and what the OP of this thread is proposing.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by MDH »

If we want to drag this out, why doesn't someone do the honors and send a sample run to a lab to get the gas tested? Send the tails and the hearts. We'll see what we get.
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thatguy1313
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by thatguy1313 »

At this point its all speculation on fermenting but it seems like steeping the leaves in high proof ethanol will extract less nic than water. I know that the sugars are from casings but the particular tobacco I got for maceration is high in sugars but low in nicotine. All I know is it smells heavenly at this point. I'm not sure how long to let it macerate but I don't think much longer. I'll probably cut it down to 35% or so and try small doses of it and stop if I feel any stomach upset. Pipe tobacco and chewing tobacco are much different and I think this will be fine.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bagasso »

thatguy1313 wrote:At this point its all speculation on fermenting but it seems like steeping the leaves in high proof ethanol will extract less nic than water.
This shows how well ethanol extracts nic.
The effect of solvents on extraction from tobacco stems are shown in Table 2. It is clear that ethanol is the best solvent and therefore for the whole experiment we used ethanol as the solvent for the extraction processes.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

There's nothing there. We don't even know who you're quoting.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bagasso »

aceswired wrote:There's nothing there. We don't even know who you're quoting.
Page 2, 3.1 Extraction of nicotine content.

The table shows nic content of long stems at 0.49% before and 0% after extraction with ethanol and short stems at 0.51% before and 0.03% after extraction with ethanol.
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GrassHopper
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by GrassHopper »

There is absolutely a reason to be paranoid. We are drinking poison. Why add more. It will kill you. I therefore choose to dry up the disease by consumption. I figur if we can consume it all we can win. Anyone willing to join the cause can contact me by PM. We will fight the good fight and beat the bastards! Nicotine is next! Yes, Yes! Join me for the great cause.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

Caffeine is poison too. Same alkaloid family as nicotine, actually. And I have a machine on my kitchen counter designed to extract it....

I'll bet Bag a quart of my best that if this is tested, the nicotine in one drink will be less than in a tomato. And probably a LOT less.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

Bagasso wrote:
aceswired wrote:There's nothing there. We don't even know who you're quoting.
Page 2, 3.1 Extraction of nicotine content.

The table shows nic content of long stems at 0.49% before and 0% after extraction with ethanol and short stems at 0.51% before and 0.03% after extraction with ethanol.
The link comes up Not Found for me. maybe it's a mobile thing...
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kiwi Bruce
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by kiwi Bruce »

What the hell am I missing here? I get my tobacco from the Amish about a week after it's cut. I pay a dollar a plant for golden yellow Burley and I get 40 to 50 plants. I sun dry these while the weather is still good then move them into the second story of a barn to cure, on the stalks. I get to pick the best bottom leaf myself, this is the best smoking leaf on the plant. It dries first and is mellow and smokeable as soon as it's dry. I get between 25 to 30 leaves from each plant, about a quarter pound of smoking tobacco, that's 3 to 4 ozs of smoking tobacco for my time and a buck. The longer I let it age, the milder the smoke, so last years dried, cured and aged is a very good smoke. So please explain... I totally don't get the point of drinking anything with tobacco? Why? What's the attraction?
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

I found the source, Bag. The extraction was done near the boiling point. That's apples to oranges. Try making tea with boiling water, then tepid water. Apples to oranges.

Kiwi, I wouldn't be all that interested either. Just shooting down the nonsense that we'd be making some weapon-grade chemical weapon here.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bagasso »

Just shooting down the nonsense that we'd be making some weapon-grade chemical weapon here.
Nobody is saying that.

The idea that water or ethanol extract little to no nicotine is incorrect and it is something that should be taken into account.

Here is a link to the Lorillard study: INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE EXTRACTION OF NICOTINE FROM TOBACCO

First on extracting with water:
A 5 lb . portion of the blend of burley tobaccos known as Kent Burley was placed into a 30 gal . polyethylene tank
equipped with a drainage tap covered with a wire screen. Five gal . of water (25°C) was added and the slurry was agitated by stirring carefully for 20 minutes . The water was drained off through the tap and the leaf material squeezed gently to remove most of the absorbed water . Approximately 4 gal. of water (80%) was recovered.
Note the 25ºC temp. and draining after only 20 minutes. This resulted in:
This analysis shows that 44% of the nicotine originally present in the leaf was extracted in this experiment.

On distillation they offer this (similar to the video posted above):
To this was added 200 ml of 50% sodium hydroxide solution and this mixture was distilled as rapidly as possible
to yield 3250 ml of a clear yellow solution . Analysis by capillary GLC indicated 11 .3g (78%) of nicotine was recovered.
Of course working with NETs we know that it is really diluted but drinking isn't something you do a few ml a day.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Kiwikeg »

Interesting
Last edited by Kiwikeg on Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
aceswired
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

Bagasso wrote:
Just shooting down the nonsense that we'd be making some weapon-grade chemical weapon here.
Nobody is saying that.

The idea that water or ethanol extract little to no nicotine is incorrect and it is something that should be taken into account.

Here is a link to the Lorillard study: INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE EXTRACTION OF NICOTINE FROM TOBACCO

First on extracting with water:
A 5 lb . portion of the blend of burley tobaccos known as Kent Burley was placed into a 30 gal . polyethylene tank
equipped with a drainage tap covered with a wire screen. Five gal . of water (25°C) was added and the slurry was agitated by stirring carefully for 20 minutes . The water was drained off through the tap and the leaf material squeezed gently to remove most of the absorbed water . Approximately 4 gal. of water (80%) was recovered.
Note the 25ºC temp. and draining after only 20 minutes. This resulted in:
This analysis shows that 44% of the nicotine originally present in the leaf was extracted in this experiment.

On distillation they offer this (similar to the video posted above):
To this was added 200 ml of 50% sodium hydroxide solution and this mixture was distilled as rapidly as possible
to yield 3250 ml of a clear yellow solution . Analysis by capillary GLC indicated 11 .3g (78%) of nicotine was recovered.
Of course working with NETs we know that it is really diluted but drinking isn't something you do a few ml a day.
Okay, now my question is where I the run that nicotine was recovered. If they distilled deep past what we would call tails, it might make sense. At 247, the vast bulk of nic would be coming in past fusels. I just don't see a reasonable fraction coming in the hearts, which you're taking some 50 degrees south of the boiling point.

Like I said before, I'm not really interested in the product, but the idea is interesting.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bagasso »

aceswired wrote:Okay, now my question is where I the run that nicotine was recovered.
Nobody here knows where in a run, with ethanol, nic would come over because nobody has done it.

All I'm saying is that it should be taken into account and not dismissed based on what NET makers are doing.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Bigbob »

Interesting thread. For what's it worth, I have a book in my library saying to make a good poison use a can of snuff soaked in water and filtered thru a hankerchef. I don't think I'd try your tobacco juice thatguy! :sick:
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by GrassHopper »

Bigbob wrote:Interesting thread. For what's it worth, I have a book in my library saying to make a good poison use a can of snuff soaked in water and filtered thru a hankerchef. I don't think I'd try your tobacco juice thatguy! :sick:
That's funny Bigbob, I made some insecticide from tobacco from a book I have. I sprayed it on some elderbugs and they crawled around for a while and then finally croaked. Funny thing is...I took some of my shine last year and sprayed some of that on em'. They didn't crawl around at all. Killed almost instantly. So, I recon must be pretty poisonous to them.

Only problem is fire! :lol:
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by aceswired »

Well if you spray um with shine, a lighter seems the natural next step...
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by DarkUtopia »

I have seen a coocking show where a chef was making a creme with tabacco. He coocked the tabacco or better soaked it for some hours(to remove the most of the poison stuff) and than made a extract of the soaked tabacco...maybe smth like that
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by StillLearning1 »

Hey that guy how did this ever turn out for you?

I know this is a year old thread I just came upon it while looking at old tobacco threads around here.

Don't mean to start a debate again. Just curious.
But what the heck do I know.....I am still learning.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by Soulshine »

Tobacco you say? Now you're in my territory.
I grow my own , for 2 successful seasons now. Just to make a long story short -tobacco which is fermented is known as Perique (Look up St James Parrish,Louisiana) it is a condiment tobacco used in pipe blends no more than 25% of the blend. I would not even consider drinking anything made from tobacco. If you don't end up immediately emptying your belly after the first swig ,you will be very sick and wouldn't want to do it again. Try smoking a heavy cigar on an empty stomach . Usually ends up making you nauseous. Better yet, go to your local bar at quitting time and drink from the empty beer bottles that the smokers used to put their butts.
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Re: Tobacco?

Post by frost021 »

I can see great tastes coming from tobacco leaves providing they are natural, being a smoker and trying different brands and cuts of leaves as I have bought bulk in the past and also have the opportunity to try an all natural cigs with the average pack costing upwards towards $15. here, the best tasteing were the natural ones as with most tobacco there's a lot of chemicals in them that the Government insists on the manufactures put in which causes so much of the problems associated with tobacco..
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