60% wheat 20% corn 20%barley

[Mgnt]

So I would like to try an all grain mash bill using the grains above 60% red winter wheat 20% corn 20% barley not sure what kind 2 row or 6... now I'm new to all of this but have a few questions.... first do all the grains have to be Malted or just barley.... the is there a benefit to malting everything (more available starch/sugar or more emzimes).... I kinda wanted to do thing natural no enzymies but in researching looks like I might be better off getting some....

so my next question is do I need both alpha and beats if I'm using malted barley.... in addition to everything else being malted... I've been reading that corn should be taken to higher temp like 180 f but wheat and barley to about 140 150.... now the mash is mostly wheat could I put all the grain in a pot and bring it to about 145f for and hour...

Now I planned on five gallon batches with 12.5 lbs of the grains... starting of should I use less like a pound a gallon just to get the feeling.. AG are a lot of work and wouldn't want to mess everything up first time

Thanks in advance

[der wo]

This is a good recipe to start without using liquid enzymes:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17750
Of course you can replace some of the corn with wheat if you want.

Yes. All grain is complicated. You will find your answers by reading AG threads. It's a long journey. A good recipe like NCHooch'S to start speeds up.

[MichiganCornhusker]

I commend you for your enthusiasm!
I'll give you my take on this, and some answers, but your questions indicate that you really need to read up on the AG recipe threads posted here to get a better handle on the process.

Your grain bill will make a good whiskey, sort of an upside down bourbon. 12# in 5 gallons water is a good start, especially with corn in the mix.

You should aim for at least 25% malted grains. With that, you won't need any additional enzymes.
If it were me, I'd do all malted barley, and half of the wheat malted. Wouldn't hurt a bit to use all malted wheat.

Keep in mind that raw grains and malted grains will produce different flavors in the final spirit.

Corn needs to be cooked at high temps to make its starches available to be converted by enzymes.
I would boil the entire 5 gallons water and add the corn to it. That will keep it thin enough to not set up on you.
If using any raw wheat, throw that in there too.
Let that slowly cool to about 150F. Then add your ground up malted grains and keep at 140'sF for several hours.

Take notes and record pH, temps, and OG. That will help if you run into trouble.

You're asking the right questions, but you need more than answers to be successful. You need to understand the "whys" before you can get a good process going. Keep us posted as you progress.

[shadylane]

So I would like to try an all grain mash bill using the grains above 60% red winter wheat 20% corn 20% barley.....
.....I kinda wanted to do thing natural no enzymies but in researching looks like I might be better off getting some.
Thanks in advance

Get the enzymes, it's cheap insurance, especially when experimenting with an AG mash.
Edited:
On a side note, with enzymes you can use mash-bills that would be impossible with only the diastic power of malt.

[Mgnt]

Thanks Michigan I know I have a lot more reading to do but I'm trying... I wanna go for an AG but wanna make sure I have an idea before doing so... so you say keep it in the 140s for several hours this can be done with and insulated container or do I need to heat it on a stove

Der wo would you go with no corn in the recipe... Maybe just a wheat and barley mash then I could do a corn and barley mash

Oh and with nchoochs recipe is crack corn any different from whole corn that I would grind myself

[still_stirrin]

Oh....is crack corn any different from whole corn that I would grind myself

Well, maybe. The whole corn might be fresher. Net yield should be close, but the fresher the corn is, more likely the flavor will be fresher too.
ss

p.s.-Have you ground the whole corn yet? If not, you'll soon understand that grinding cracked corn is easier than grinding whole corn. They end up the same (for the mashtun), but the mill did the first step for you if using cracked corn.

[der wo]

If you mill corn very coarse like cracked corn, it needs much cooking (gelatinization) and you get less starch out of the corn, but the straining is much easier. If you can distill on the grain, you can use fine milled corn.

It's always better, not to heat the mash while the enzymes are working. If you have to heat, you have to stir the whole time of heating to avoid hot spots and scorching. So a boiler insulation is very important.

If you use only corn and malted barley, or if you add a bit rye or wheat are minor details when starting AG. I would decide for the grain bill you want and make it. Perhaps 60% Corn, 10% wheat, 30% 6row and the process of NCHooch. Do the "optional premashing" he describes. It helps a lot.