FLOUR MASH?

[brantoken]

Like to see the link if you got it. more enzyme mileage is my issue, and I want more dancing on the flour from my enzymes , that's my kind o party .

Ya know some of the biotech type enzyme manufacturing guys are claiming 90 to 100% conversion rates, That sound good to me, less work more drink( see reference to party above).

You gotta wonder how much is hoey, and how much is fact( and if it's available).

[Dnderhead]

I'm not going back to look it up ,,but most enzymes work best (by nature) at body temps (they digest food, help plants grow etc) we brewers just do it in a bucket. at 130-150f you wont last long either.

[Puma]

Good way to look at it dnder

brantoken, what is the convertion rate you have been getting? Wheat malt has a potential extract of 1.040 SG per pound per gal. So at 80% that's 1.032, 90% 1.036, and (du) 100% 1.040. I don't know what the potential would be for flour, but it seems to me that the time versis the cost of a little extra wheat may not be worth it.

Like Dnder said, fermenting wile converting is a good way to go. I wonder if you can't do both. ie, do a heated mash, chill to pitching temp, pitch some more enzimes with the yeast.

I know that amylase enzimes will work down to very low temp. I make a bread that needs to be in the frig overnight so that the yeast are supressed and the enzimes can work without all of the sugar being eatin' up.

I read what you posted on your enzimes, it looks like they are alfa and beta amylase (just being called somethin' diforent) and they (to me) were saying that the mediom they use to produce them makes a better enzime. Although they didn't say much all in all. I am thinking that Gluco-amylase is what they are calling 1.4-α-D-glucan maltohydrolase, or more simply beta-amylase. Regardless of what they are calling it, it is still doing the same thing at the same temps and I am thinking that it is the same. Although I'm not sure on "exo-alpha-amylase." I'm thinkin' that it's another way of sayin' beta I may be way off on that, it's just what I'm thinkin'

[Dnderhead]

I'M also thinking that being flour it compacts and hard for enzymes to git to it maybe needs to be stirred contunuously to keep it in suspension.
another way is to stir in the top lair let it work then stir in another 1" or so and work your way to the bottom. enzymes needs water to work
if the flour (goop) seals it off it has no water to work with. only on the top

[Puma]

I'm trying this right now with rye four. I have 3 mashs going with diferant portions of flour and water.

Mash 1 has one pound flour with one gal of water. It was easy to mash in and seems to be doing well so far. The flour has staid in suspention ok so far.

Mash 2 has two pounds flour with one gal water. It was harder to mash in and needed to have water added slowly and ster, more and ster, ect. The flour has staid in suspention better than mash #1 so far.

Mash 3 has three pounds of flour with one gal water. Mash in was about the same as mash #2. The flour has staid in suspention better than the other two mashs, although I'm not too sure about whether it will ferment efficiantly or no.

So far I think that mash #2 will work the best, although I would like to get a higher gravity and may try 2.5 pounds per gal. I think that the 3 pounds per gal may be too thick for the yeast. Eather way it would be hard to distill out.

I found that adding the enzimes with about 1/3 of the water helped alot with the formation of chunck, in other words it help the flour sacherait better. As a hole I haven't had truble with chuncks or flour building up on the bottom so far. That's nice, cuz I thought I would.

[brantoken]

yeap, I was pleasantly surprised as well, on how it stired in. I start with enzyme, hoping that would help keep it from clumping.

I wasn't anywhere near the disaster as when I tried to cook cornmeal .

I put 5 lbs in a 32 quart pot, and started trying to cook it , boy did that one make a huge mess, the corn meal just keep growing, I walked away for just a minute and it kept growing.....

I wouldn't be alive today , if I hadn't tought of doing it when the wife was out of town, took me hours to clean that mess up ( she told me it would expand, I had no idea how much)

[Puma]

lol

[Puma]

Ok, havening been farting around with this mash for the last 24hrs I have some conclutions:

All in all it ain't worth it!

I have been trying to get a good convertion, and although what I have will ferment, I am not happy with the convertion. Using a hydromiter is not an option with all of the particulate matter in there so I am going off of taist (I hate that). It is sweet but not as sweet as your average beer wort, so I am sure that I've had very little convertion.

I think the big problem is the grains haven't been malted. This is making the tight balls of starch hold together, or at least that is what I'm thinking. I have mashed at several temps for several hr. adding more enzimes as needed, and concluded that the only way to realy do this is with a long boil. And even then I'm not sure of the convertion. Boiling is a bitch, the consistancy is like a thick gravy and, yes I know you all have said, it is easy to burn. I'm thinking that the several hrs of stering is not worth the price between malted grain and four.

Another thing I'm thinking is there is no way in hell that this stuff is going to clear. I use a hot plate for my still, so I'm not as woried about burning will distilling, however, I emagin I will have to run it slow and low and pray. I'm just thinkin' I would rather pay the extra $$ for malted or rolled grains.

To sum up:

The flour staid suspended just fine
It's is hard to get convertion
It's a bitch to boil
It burns EASY
I'm sure it will ferment and make booz
It will take more time to mash and distill than rolled or malted grain.

I just don't think I want to mess (and I mean messy) with this, even though I like the idea of going to the market down the street to get what I need.

[brantoken]

Sorry to hear things are not working out. I am going to give this a try shortly. I will be busy with work for a little bit.
Just keeping up with my UJSM is taking most of my sparce spare time. I am going to give it a go with 8 lbs flour for 5 gallons. This time I will use the hydrometer. I will report back in with copious notes.