Rye Whiskey from enzymes

[violentblue]

I found a supplier locally who can get me Amylase enzymes, will this affect the taste of the finished product over using malted barley?

also I won't be able to get pH stabliser, anything I can do to get the pH in the right range? citric acid?

[violentblue]

I've only done one all grain mash, using malted barley. it was successfull. but this'll be my first attempt using enzymes

[violentblue]

oh ya, ferment on the grain?

[Hawke]

The enzymes will not add any flavors to your wash/spirit.
Don't know how big a batch you are working with, but for my 20 pound corn, I use a couple of teaspoons worth of alpha to pre-malt with. (add before boiling). This keeps it from turning into a big goo ball. After cooking, let cool to proper temp and add the recomended amount.
I ferment on the grain myself. Have a couple filter bags to strain it afterwards.

[Dnderhead]

when Im doing corn ,oats I use enzymes in the cook, malt for flavor on the final conversion, (if I want it)

[violentblue]

thanks
that helps
I'm thinking I'll try a batch with just rye see how it comes out

[Hack]

also I won't be able to get pH stabliser, anything I can do to get the pH in the right range? citric acid?

I use lemon juice like you get at the grocery store to get the pH right. I don't have to add much to get things in range.

[Hawke]

You will need either malt or Gluco-amylaze enzyme(aka Beta-amylaze) to go along with the Alpha. The Alpha converts the starch to a long-chain sugar. The Gluco breaks these down into fermentable sugars.

[brewmaker1]

Beano?

[BW Redneck]

Beano is different from Beta-amylase if I remember correctly. Beta will chunk what the alpha does into 2 chain sugars, but it leaves some medium length polysaccarides behind (maltodextrins, I think they call them.) Beano (and gamma-amylase) convert these into simple 1-3 chain sugars that the yeast can easily metabolize. Beano cannot be used in place of Alpha and Beta amylase together.

[violentblue]

stuff I got ordered is the alph/gluco mixed together
I'll throw a little malted barley in to round things off flavor wise
shooting for a crown royal type product

[punkin]

also I won't be able to get pH stabliser, anything I can do to get the pH in the right range? citric acid?

I use lemon juice like you get at the grocery store to get the pH right. I don't have to add much to get things in range.

Absolute best product for ph reduction is Backset.

You won't have any till the second and subsequent runs though, so make sure you save some in the fridge or freezer.

[Tater]

What were the results from this mash?

[violentblue]

wouldn't ferment, I think it was just to damn cold when we attempted it, wern't able to convert properly.
probably attempt it this summer again.
have had good results converting Rice with enzymes, makes a very nice spirit.

[Tater]

finally got some enzymes myself wanting to try some rye with them also. Wondering if taste be much different from using malt.

[violentblue]

from what I understand you should get more "rye" flavor from using enzymes rather than malt. but would be interesting to hear how yours turns out.
Still gotta get around to making some rye whiskey for granddad.

[Tater]

been simmering 30 lbs rye in 12 gallons water
brought back up to a boil while stirring simmered 10 minutes or so and removed from heat covered and will let set while Ill boil 5 gallons more and pour in fer minter when rye gets to 150f or so ill try some of the enzyme then stir let set a few minutes and then add to ferment er with the 5 gallons more boiling water when reaches 150f this time Ill add rest of enzymes let set while I add sugar to rest of water for a total 35 gallon wash mix with rye and add yeast when its cool down next day using 1 gallon wash/mash for starter.This being my first grain with enzymes im gonna be curious about taste.

[Tater]

Added prestarted yeast to wash last night and it fermenting hard by this morning.Started a rye with barley malt and sugar today to have something to taste test against.

[Tater]

Ran rye/sugar with malt last week running rye/sugar with enzymes today.Myself and some friends will taste test tonight

[Tater]

Both rye's tasted good to me.The one with the malted barley tasted as such and one on enzymes had a cleaner rye taste as far as the grain went but lacked the taste rye malt added .Its different not bad to my taste anyway.Friends who tried both also thought both were good and couldn't place what was the difference.Fourway stopped by to visit tried both knew right away witch one was made with malt.

[Fourway]

The way I described the difference when I tasted them side by side was that the one with malt had more "belly" to the flavor profile.
A rounder more generous lower end, the rye from enzyme had a higher thinner flavor with less richness.

While I haven't tasted two rye spirits made close together side by side like this before, I've felt for a long time that you get less fullness and a less complex nose making rye with enzyme.
I honestly don't think it's just the barley that does it either. Spirit converted with rye malt or made from all rye malt tends to have that same roundness that you lose with enzyme conversion.

Tater recently pointed me to an interesting article that suggests that rye may have enough enzyme in it without malting to fully convert at standard mashing times and temps... I'd be fascinated to see how using that approach effects taste, but I'm willing to wager that you'll get better flavor that way than with enzyme additive.

Its my opinion that people don't really "get" enzymes. There such a thing as not enough time for conversion with a given amount of enzymes at a given temp.... and there's such a thing as not having the right enzymes for the job if you are using additives... but I feel the naturally occurring enzymes in malted and raw grain generally work just fine at lower temps, it might take a long time if the enzyme density is low but at room temp the enzymes don't wear out or denature the starch doesn't want to be in long chains anyway... it wants to be sugar. This is why sourdough starters work and smell beery, this is why SMOP mashes work.

[Fourway]

by the way Tater, both were excellent.
The natural one tasted better to me but I wouldn't turn up my nose at the enzyme one.

[kiwistiller]

Tater recently pointed me to an interesting article that suggests that rye may have enough enzyme in it without malting to fully convert at standard mashing times and temps... I'd be fascinated to see how using that approach effects taste, but I'm willing to wager that you'll get better flavor that way than with enzyme additive.

I'd love to see that article. It sounds very interesting.

[Tater]

http://chestofbooks.com/food/beverages/ ... -Acid.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[muckanic]

Strictly speaking, there are actually three possibilities here. One is to mash unmalted rye with enzymes, another is to use malted rye, and the third is to use home-malted, dried but unkilned rye (sometimes referred to as "wind" malt). It is not clear whether the extra depth of flavour in the malted versions is due to the chemical changes which occur during germination, or during kilning. Many folks seem to be of the view that flavours generated by browning reactions in the oven do not carry over to the distillate. I would not be so sure about that one. It also opens up the possibility that you could try toasting the unmalted grain, then converting it with enzymes.

[kiwistiller]

cheers for the article tater. very interesting, muchanic
KS