New WIKI - USE IT

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Fact or fiction

Postby Tater » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:54 am

was reading in wiki sight and ran across this[Malting for home use is not a difficult procedure, but it should NOT be attempted with oats or with rye.
These grains, when malting, tend to attract butryfying bacteria - these organisms, by themselves are poisonous, and so are the butanol isomers that these bacteria produce.




Retrieved from "http://wiki.homedistiller.org/Malting"
] Ive read this also on home distillers. But havent found it anywhere else. If this a true statment.Where can I find source it was taking from? Would like to research it more. Thanks Tater PS Was also wondering under what critera was info put on wiki based?
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Found this

Postby Tater » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:09 am

Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 20:23:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Herlache <th22 at cornell.edu>
Subject: Moldy malting rye

Alan posted, with regard to malting rye:

>All this talk about homemalting makes me want to point this out. Malting rye
>at home can be dangerous. I have checked this out in a few published sources
>and they all say the same. There is a toxic spore you can grow on rye, and
>it's allegedly very toxic. I hate to be so vague here.

I'll try to field this one, since it's plant pathology related. The likely
culprit is Claviceps purpurea, the causal organism of ergot. This fungus
produces lots of biologically-active alkaloids with a wide range of effects
on humans and other animals. These include symptoms such as
hallucinations and psycotic symptoms, smooth-muscle contractions and
convulsions, and gangrene from circulatory damage. Some of the alkaloids
have medicinal uses, for example, in treating migraines.

While rye is the most common host, this fungus also can infect wheat,
triticale, wild grasses and even our beloved barley. All commercially sold
small grains (wheat, rye, etc.) are screened for the presence of ergot
alkaloids, so I think the risk when malting any grain is pretty low. Grain
that fails the test is sold at a discount--I have no idea for what use.
I'd suggest simply buying milling-quality grain for malting.

If you're really paranoid (hmm, ergotism?) you could rinse your grain with
bromates, which many maltsters do to limit microbial growth. This has the
added benefit of extracting tannins (I think) from the husks. Also, the
growing fungus produces relatively little of the toxic alkaloids, most of
them are produced when the fungus elaborates its resting stage (called
sclerotia). These are readily visible, as they basically consume a whole
grain when forming. The sclerotia are horn-shaped, and are purple-black in
color. Sclerotia can also be separated from the grain by a brine-flotation
technique. My reference, unfortunately, doesn't specify the specific
gravity of the brine.


Tom Herlache
th22 at cornell.edu so now Tater still wonders if its safe or not
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ergot

Postby Uncle Jesse » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:54 am

ergot can grow on rye if you aren't careful. this will sometimes cause, if ingested, a condition called "st. elmos fire" where a person has hallucinations and so on. it was more common in the middle ages when people did not throw away bread for the sin of a bit of mold.

while working to isolate certain properties involved in these ergot extracts, a man named dr. albert hofmann isolated and accidentally ingested lysergic acid diethylamide, better known as "LSD".
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Postby MyDBear » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:27 pm

got me woundering now so i did a seach and found this.
http://botit.botany.wisc.edu/toms_fungi/oct99.html
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=14891
and a lot more but im not going ta put them all here.
seems ta me that the malting process alone does not cause this fungus.
But if any one is going ta malt there own grain they should get it from a
reputable source.
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Postby Grayson_Stewart » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:55 am

Can anyone that knows how to edit the WIKI add a table of properties for the various components in distilling like the one in this link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_Chloride
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well

Postby Uncle Jesse » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:11 pm

which items would you like to see included?

editing isnt that hard, really. i'm learning as i go. if you "edit" the page in wikipedia you can get an idea where to start, that's what i do
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Postby MyDBear » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:14 pm

grayson if ya click edit this page ya can see how they did the table
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right

Postby Uncle Jesse » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:01 pm

don't be shy about the WIKI guys, don't be afraid to hit "edit" and change things or add info. that's what it's all about.

go to "special pages" and you can see the "wanted pages" - ie, pages which are referenced more than once but do not actually exist, or you can check orphaned pages etc. which need editing. there's always room for improvement.

any change can be backed out or modified very easily.
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Postby Fourway » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:46 pm

This whole thing about "butrifying bacteria" is a load of high grade horseshit.

The only place the warning appears is in a hippy dippy book on growing brewing ingredients in a garden and "butrifying" isn't a word... go ahead google it.
Ergot only grows naturally on growing rye in the field, its look is completely unmistakable. (large black/purple spikes growing out of the grains).

This is an urban legend folks, a myth, a tale parents tell to scare their children, a tale northerners tell to scare southerners :)

Stop repeating it.
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...

Postby Uncle Jesse » Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:50 pm

here, current "Wanted" page. pick one, edit it, save it...

http://wiki.homedistiller.org/Special:Wantedpages
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Postby MyDBear » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:33 pm

Fourway: (theoretically speaking) If ya got ahold of some grain that had this Ergot fungus and ya did'nt know it and ya used it in yer mash would'nt that be a bad thing.
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Postby Fourway » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:20 pm

MyDBear wrote:Fourway: (theoretically speaking) If ya got ahold of some grain that had this Ergot fungus and ya did'nt know it and ya used it in yer mash would'nt that be a bad thing.


if a load of ergot infected rye actually made it past inspection and got bagged up and you went to the store and bought a sack, by the time you got it home and got it crushed and mashed it, other bags would have been discovered and you'd learn that there was a problem with it when a joint taskforce of the CDC and the DEA landed helicopters in your yard and stormed your house wearing full enviornment suits.

But the answer is... ergot contains literally hundreds of deeply fucked up chemicals and it's possible that some of them might be volitile though I think most of them are alkaloid solids.
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Postby Tater » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:29 pm

See fokes it was a yankee plot :D to keep of southerns from maltin our own rye.#$#$#$#$ yankees
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more

Postby Uncle Jesse » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:39 pm

it's safe to malt rye. perfectly safe...if you live north of the mason-dixon line! if not, don't even try it!!
Last edited by Uncle Jesse on Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tater » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:47 pm

lol well well uncle jessie didnt know you was of northern decent :D
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Postby Fourway » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:18 am

its not that he is or isn't "of northern decent".
it's simply that he isn't decent.
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thats right

Postby Uncle Jesse » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:14 am

just don't call me late for dinner.

actually my g-g-grandfather fought for the north with sherman. his brother fell at jonesboro, the final battle for atlanta. but that was a long, long time ago. i like the southern boys i met in atlanta, dallas, birmingham. probably been to those cities a total of 30 times or something, week-long trips. made a lot of friends.

the wiki now has 900 pages added! great work guys!
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Postby Tater » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:28 am

you pic and name is a good disguise uncle jessie :D
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well

Postby Uncle Jesse » Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:48 am

i live out west - plenty of moonshine history here! the miners lived on it. in fact, i live in mining country.
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Postby Tater » Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:09 pm

from what ive seen theres plenty of moonshine history east west north and south. makin and drinkin knows no borders. :lol:
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Postby Grayson_Stewart » Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:02 pm

Uncle Jesse,
Hope you let me know when you might be back through Birmingham again...would be good to break bread together.
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sure

Postby Uncle Jesse » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:16 am

if i get back to birmingham. won't be in the near future but ya never know.
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Postby MyDBear » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:03 pm

Grayson_Stewart wrote:Can anyone that knows how to edit the WIKI add a table of properties for the various components in distilling like the one in this link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_Chloride


Grayson if ya give me a more detailed idea of what ya want i could work on it tables and charts arnt that hard ta do ya just need ta know what ta put in them
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Postby Grayson_Stewart » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:49 pm

The table here is what I was talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol

just thought a table for every faction a person encounters while sistilling was a good idea...I have no idea how to do this.
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Re: thats right

Postby Fourway » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:43 am

Uncle Jesse wrote:my g-g-grandfather fought for the north with sherman


in all fairness though (not to bring up politics or anything) calling what Sherman did "fighting" stretches the definition of the word almost to the breaking point. It's sort of like saying that a bunch of people who died in a house fire were killed by fever.
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not quite true

Postby Uncle Jesse » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:30 pm

kennessaw mountain, resaca, atlanta, sherman fought quite a few battles before his 'march to the sea'. my g-g-grandfathers brother fell at jonesboro, the last battle for atlanta, so he went home to michigan before the march started to be with his grieving mother.
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Postby Yttrium » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:53 pm

Although Sherman was vicious in war, he was extremely kind in peace. He is one of the main figures who can be credited for the soft terms of peace the South received.
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Postby The Chemist » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:58 pm

Spoken like a true yankee, there Yttrium. Sherman was a common arsonist, a terrorist. And they stole all the booze. (Why are we talking about this?)
Purposeful motion, for one so insane...
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Postby Tater » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:20 pm

yep
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Postby Fourway » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:28 pm

The Chemist wrote:Spoken like a true yankee, there Yttrium. Sherman was a common arsonist, a terrorist. And they stole all the booze. (Why are we talking about this?)


we're talking about it because I'm a bad person and brought up a political subject.
I thought it was sort of funny at the moment, knowing as I do that yankees view the war as ancient history while to southerners it's practically current events... but it was a foolish thing to do because it can only turn ugly from this point forward.

sorry bout that.
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