Molasses Wash Not Fermenting

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FraekNess
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Molasses Wash Not Fermenting

Post by FraekNess » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:26 pm

I'm making a molasses wash for making rum , and as of right now it doesn't seem to be fermenting at all.

I made a "yeast bomb" by boiling:
1/2 gal spring water w/
1 lb brown sugar
3 7 oz pkgs bakers yeast
5 tsp DAP
1 tsp Citric Acid
1 multivitamin

I boiled that for about 30 mins then I added it to:

1/2 gal feed molasses
1 gal spring water

I stirred the mixture very well for about 15 minutes, then added 2 5 oz pkg of EC-1118 yeast. I put the airlock on and waited 1 day... nothing.

The SG is 1.09.

Do i need to add more water to lower the SG?
Or maybe my feed molasses is no good?
It's:

37% Sugar Invert
35% Moisture
1% Crude Fat
1% Crude Protein

it also has a long list of other ingredients.... What should i do??

Uncle Jesse
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hmm

Post by Uncle Jesse » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:28 pm

what's the sugar content of the molasses?

what's the pH of your mash?
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

new_moonshiner
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Post by new_moonshiner » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:38 pm

what temp is the fermenter at ? room temp ? if so i would make sure the fermenter is airtight and give it another day sometimes that yeast is a little slow to kick ...sounds like it should work ok to me ..

GingerBreadMan
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Post by GingerBreadMan » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:42 pm

Don't know anything about feed molasses. I use fancy molasses and the only ingredient is - molasses. It's made from pressing sugar cane.

But looking at your process, if you boiled your yeast bomb (about 1/2 gallon) and mixed it with your 1 1/2 gallon of molasses + water. What was the temp when you pitched your yeast?

Could be the temp was too high and you killed the yeast.

Assuming your SG is correct. I would give it a good mix to aerate, pitch another pack of EC-1118 - don't rehydrate - just pitch it on the spinning wash. Don't put on the airlock. Wait 4 hours, if the yeast is forming a big bubble or foam cap - your set, put the air lock on and let it ferment.

ps - I did this before, I pitched the yeast forgeting to let it cool down a bit and this worked.
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.

wineo
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Post by wineo » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:18 pm

Sometimes dry yeast just takes a while to get going.I would give it a good stir,and wait.You may want to add a pinch of epsom salts also.I always give mine 3 days.If it isnt doing something by then,somethings wrong.Unless you pinched the yeast at too high a temp and killed it,it will probably take off.

GingerBreadMan
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Post by GingerBreadMan » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:41 pm

I always give mine 3 days.
Wow, I'm just not that patient. I give mine 12 hours max before I start to panic. Usually I make the wash, pitch the yeast at night and a don't put on the airlock. The next day I'll look at it, listen to it, if it's fermenting I put on the airlock, if not I'm in trouble shooting mode.

This is my new process for two reasons -

- I'm thinking the wash needs oxygen in the first 24 hours, so I'll help it out without the airlock.
- I've gone to bed with aggressive washes that have foamed over with an airlock - I hate moping :D
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.

FraekNess
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Post by FraekNess » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:28 am

1. I don't know the pH... what do you guys use pH strips?
2. Don't know sugar content, it just says cane molasses as first ingredient, 37% invert.
3. Yes, room temp about 80 degrees (AC's off)
4. The temperature was around 100 when i put in my first pkg... i put in my second pkg about 6 hrs later (this time i rehydrated) when I saw no activity.


I'll try mixing again and pitching another yeast with the top open... i'll check back later to let you know how it went. Thanks all for the speedy responses.

new_moonshiner
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Post by new_moonshiner » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:59 am

looks like just a a little patience is all thats needed now..

Safegyde
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Post by Safegyde » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:14 pm

When I think i have a stuck wash I just make another starter bowl with part of the same type sugar as in the original wash and a lot of water. Heat it up to around 100F and pitch the yeast, pitch a lot of it. You can always strip it out later.
Add some nutrients that you might have missed out on last time. Aerate the wash really well and pitch your nutrients and re-hydrated yeast. Sometimes I will even dry pitch a package on top of that to make sure.

Works every time!! :D
Shine on you crazy diamonds!!

FraekNess
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Post by FraekNess » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:32 am

Alright I pitched another pkg of EC-1118 and let it air out for 24 hrs. I also rehydrated some bakers yeast in a mason jar with a half diluted wash. In both cases the yeast formed a thin film and seemed very inactive... it was going, but vey slow. Like I'd see a small pop bubble every second or two. This morning I stirred up the wash really well and added the rehydrated yeast. I airlocked it and there are still no bubbles. The airlock definitly works caused i switched it with a sugar wash airlock I have going.

Should I just leave the airlock on and wait??

FraekNess
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Post by FraekNess » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:28 am

Finally starting to go.... I get a bubble every 45 seconds through the airlock. (I guess it just looks slow next to my sugar wash which is going about 10 times as fast)

How long is this thing going to take to ferment?
about 2 weeks?

And what is the final SG of molasses washes?
is it still .995 like normal sugar washes (started 1.09)?

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Post by Tater » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:39 am

Think Id add a tad more water to that recipe
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper

FraekNess
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Post by FraekNess » Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:14 am

Yea, i think for the next wash im going to add less molasses (maybe 1/4 gal) and add the back wash from this run (about 1/2 gal). I'm making small washes because my pot still can only hold about 3 gals.

Pikluk
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Post by Pikluk » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:22 am

- I'm thinking the wash needs oxygen in the first 24 hours, so I'll help it out without the airlock.
don't think it help oxygenation soon has the fermentation start co2 come out and make a layer on top of the wash pushing the oxygen out.
in fact if there oxygen present the yeast eat that and nutrient not much sugar and they reproduce there not making alcohol and co2.
thats why you can do full ferment in a bucket with just the lid loosely on top or plastic food wrap.

wineo
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Post by wineo » Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:45 am

[quote]don't think it help oxygenation soon has the fermentation start co2 come out and make a layer on top of the wash pushing the oxygen out.


Yeast need oxygen to reproduce.Your wash needs to be airated good,or have access to oxygen for the first 72 hours to properly reproduce and make a large enough colony for a strong and proper fermentation.Sugar washes and rum washes need a larger colony of yeast to overcome the pressures of osmotic stress.

Uncle Jesse
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yep

Post by Uncle Jesse » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:39 am

I pour my washes from bucket to bucket 3-4 times to aerate before I put the wash into a fermenter and pitch my yeast
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

Pikluk
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Post by Pikluk » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:06 am

what i meant is i don't think that a carboy without airlock will give any or very little oxygen to the wash unless you pump air in it.
a open bucket in a room with some air movement probably would.

flyboy3b
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Re: Molasses Wash Not Fermenting

Post by flyboy3b » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:42 am

FraekNess wrote:I'm making a molasses wash for making rum , and as of right now it doesn't seem to be fermenting at all.

I made a "yeast bomb" by boiling:
1/2 gal spring water w/
1 lb brown sugar
3 7 oz pkgs bakers yeast
5 tsp DAP
1 tsp Citric Acid
1 multivitamin
why did you boil the yeast?

ive been having pretty good luck with 2/3 gallon of molasses, 8lbs sugar 5 gallons of water and rum yeast from brewhaus. it starts within a few hours and usually finishes in 3 to 4 days and i end up with 15 to 17%

FraekNess
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Post by FraekNess » Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:11 pm

I boiled the yeast because i was trying to follow the "PUGIRUM" recipe somewhat. My understanding was that boiling the yeast would kill it and allow for proper nutriants for the yeast added later.

And by the way I added 1gal of water with 2 lbs light brown sugar dissolved in it monday( 3/31/08 ) and its been fermenting well since.

I guess next time less molasses and more water/sugar, I'm thinking that this feed molasses has quite a bit of unfermentables in it.

FraekNess
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Re: Molasses Wash Not Fermenting

Post by FraekNess » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:53 pm

Just letting yall know...

I started my second generation Rum Wash (well... two of them):

Yeast Bomb(boiled 30 min):
1 gal
4 lbs brown sugar
5 tsp DAP
3 pkg bakers yeast
1 multivit

Wash (mixed well to airate):
2 gal water
1 1/2 quart feed molasses
1/2 gal of backwash/lees
Juice half lemon

1 pkg EC-1118 (let stand 4 hrs on top with lid open)
SG=1.65

They've been going for a day now and they're fermenting like mad (2-3 bubbles/sec)

On the last stripping run I got half a gallon of 50%abv from 3 or 4 gals (~10%abv)

I collected down to around 20%, is that low enough?

I've never done a stripping run and spirit run. Should I add the 2 half gallons i get from these to the other half gallon, run it slow and make my cuts based on smell/ taste the next day? I have a 3-4 gal pot still. Kin of like what Pugi said:

*Now for the tricky part. On the spirit run:
Run it easy, not to fast, not to slow.
Make the heads to hearts cut like normal and add heads to the vodka/neutral container, do NOT reuse these in your rum.
Run out hearts till you start to get the wet cardboard taste. On my still this is between 85% ABV and 50% ABV. Collect wet cardboard spirits and add to vodka/neutral container. Do NOT reuse these in you rum. For me this is from about 50% ABV down to 40% ABV.
Collect the 40% ABV down to 20% ABV in seperate container. These are your RUM OILS. Handle them with care and treat them special. Always add them to your still when you do a SPIRIT run and always collect them from the spirit run. The more times you use them the more concentrated they become. It wont take long and they will overflow into the hearts. This is the KEY to My rum.

GingerBreadMan
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Re: Molasses Wash Not Fermenting

Post by GingerBreadMan » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:15 pm

I do my stripping runs down to 30%, but going down to %20 is ok. I just do it only to 30% to save time.

For spirit runs do it by taste waiting until the next day. I did quite a few runs like that until I could tell right off the still. Nowadays, I can taste off the still and know how it's going to end up. I think I had to do about 7-8 runs before I could just taste it off the still and know.

FWIW, I find the tails hit at 65%ABV off my still. I like the heads, so I put a bit more heads in - but that is my personal preference.

I keep both the heads and tails -known as feints that I add to the next spirit run. These are your rum oils.

Note: foreshots should be discarded. This is the first stuff that comes out. Heads comes next. I just wanted to make that clear, I've seen heads/foreshots used as the same terms here and there.

That's how I run my rum. Find your sweet spot for yourself. The best way is to collect in small samples. Wait a day or two and then taste test them to find what works for you.
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left.

Uncle Jesse
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Re: Molasses Wash Not Fermenting

Post by Uncle Jesse » Thu May 01, 2008 7:44 am

I used to stop around 30% on the 10 gallon still but with the 300 gallon still I go down to 20% because the amount coming out is still worth it. On the 10 gallon it would only be occasional drips by the time I got close to 20%.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

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