Pure ethanol

Putting older posts here. Going to try to keep the novice forum pruned about 90 days work. The 'good' old stuff is going to be put into appropriate forums.

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Laimon
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Pure ethanol

Post by Laimon » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:25 pm

Dear friends,
I have got lately a pure ethanol 99.9% for laboratory purposed.I'm in a country that prohibits booze.
Now if I break this ethanol,with distilled water down to 40%. is it safe to drink?or drop it down to 20% and mix with Juice?
Impurities would be then less that 0.05%

any thoughts

Thanks

Uncle Jesse
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well

Post by Uncle Jesse » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:37 pm

if it's over 86% ABV then it's not safe to drink.

the only way to get alcohol greater than 86% ABV (192 proof in the States) is to use benzene or some other dangerous dessicant.
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Safegyde
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Post by Safegyde » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:04 pm

Uncle Jesse, 86% is 172 proof, right? No offense.

We used to be able to get Golden Grain at 198 proof, that's 99% abv. At least that is what the label said. We used to make hunch punch out of it.

I held some in my mouth to spit on a flame one time....well I couldn't get the lighter lit......I tried three or four times to light it and then decided to spit it out 'cuz it gave me blisters on the inside of my mouth!!! Hurt like hell. Never did make those flames shoot out of my mouth! :lol:
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Uncle Jesse
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oops!

Post by Uncle Jesse » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:23 pm

yeh and I can add...but the espresso machine is still busted. 96%, 192 proof.
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Uncle Jesse
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well

Post by Uncle Jesse » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:24 am

you can't get 99% ethanol without mixing in something harmful. alcohol is so anhydrous that it will suck moisture out of the air and hit what is called the azeotrope max which is 192 proof (96% ABV).
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zymos
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Post by zymos » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:35 pm

I think the benzene is only used to achieve that purity, and is not supposed to remain in the finished product...
(but residues still may)

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Post by violentblue » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:43 pm

had a buddy in Unv that was a chem major, the prof was very specific on which lab alcohol was drinkable and which was not.

he said "I know you're going to steel it anyway so use the stuff marked 95% any number above that has benzene in it, it will ruin your party in a hurry"

Uncle Jesse
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...

Post by Uncle Jesse » Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:36 pm

violentblue wrote:had a buddy in Unv that was a chem major, the prof was very specific on which lab alcohol was drinkable and which was not.

he said "I know you're going to steel it anyway so use the stuff marked 95% any number above that has benzene in it, it will ruin your party in a hurry"
wise words from a wise man
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big worm
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Post by big worm » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:25 pm

only a fool would drink it, not knowing if it is denatured or not...its just not worth the risk. jmho
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Post by wineo » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:34 pm

I personally think drinking anything over 50% is harmful to your body.You dont want to blow a kidney,and if you dont know if that stuff is denatured,you might as well drink gasoline.Be careful!!!

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Post by big worm » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:37 pm

he plans on cutting it i think....just not sure of what he cutting tho. wino? who is the face on yer avatar? its driving me an the ol ball and chain crazy..lol i know that face :evil:
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Post by wineo » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:40 pm

John Dillanger :lol:

Laimon
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Post by Laimon » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:09 pm

Guys thanks for replies , but i'm not crazy enough to drink a 99.9% ethanol, ofcourse I will cut it off down till 40% ,with distil water.

Now if we have a 99.9% ethanol, that means benzen and other kind of alcohol like methanol is only 0.1% ,when cutting off to 40% , beznen and methanol will be less than 0.05% , now is this harmful to human body?

95% ethanol is abolutely dangerous,becouse benzen and methanol is a 5% total, which is poison and very harmful.

any thoughts?

Thanks

big worm
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Post by big worm » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:13 pm

i would never drink denatured etho.....no matter how you cut it, but i'm a big safety first kinda guy. the worst that can happen is death :roll:
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Post by goinbroke2 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:32 pm

I remember as a kid, a couple buddies of mine from the reserve telling me if you poke a hole in the bottom of a bag of bread and slowly pour aftershave through it, only the good alcohol comes out and all the bad stuff is sopped up in the bread.

They also sniffed gas.

Point is, you can do anything if you want, but common sense and logic as well as advise from others stops most mistakes.

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Post by dixiedrifter » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:49 pm

Actually alcohol that dry is considered "anhydrous" grade can be made by several different techniques.

It is entirely possible that it was made using grain and then dried over molecular sieves and/or other methods such as using magnesium.

It is also possible that the alchol is fully synthetic and no grain was involved in its creation.

Whether or not it is safe to drink depends on the method of manufacture.

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Post by CoopsOz » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:16 pm

There are too many unknowns for mine, I wouldn't let it pass my lips.
It is most absurdly said, in popular language, of any man, that he is disguised in liquor; for, on the contrary, most men are disguised by sobriety. ~Thomas de Quincy, Confessions of an English Opium-Eater, 1856

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Post by zymos » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:29 pm

There IS such a thing as USP (US Pharmacopia, in other words, food grade) "pure" ethanol, so just because it is over 95%, doesn't necessarily mean it is not for consumption...

Uncle Jesse
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uh

Post by Uncle Jesse » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:21 pm

zymos wrote:There IS such a thing as USP (US Pharmacopia, in other words, food grade) "pure" ethanol, so just because it is over 95%, doesn't necessarily mean it is not for consumption...
I beg to differ on that.

Again, the azeotrope max for ethanol is 96%, 192 proof. To get higher than that means you add something, most likely benzene. If your alcohol won't go above 192 proof then it has an additive, not just some process which it's undergone.

It's simple chemistry folks. If you're so desperate to catch a buzz that you'll endanger your health and the health of your pals then you're in pretty bad shape.
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minime
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Post by minime » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:10 am

What about zeolite which is just a mineral that absorbs water. The fuel guys apparently dry their alcohol with it then remove it, cook it, and reuse it. It apparently does not leave any residue behind so should be safe to remove water from drinking alcohol?

I haven't been able to find any reference to safety for consumption on this mineral but it is also being sold in health food stores. That doesn't really mean anything 'cause lots of things sold in health food stores are downright dangerous. It is also used in aquariums to remove ammonia and it doesn't harm the fish.......

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hmm

Post by Uncle Jesse » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:34 am

it's possible there's something out there to act as a dessicant without hurting the consumer. but why would you want anything that pure for consumption anyway? only a frat boy on a testosterone binge would want to impress people by drinking something that pure, imho
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Post by wineo » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:37 am

High proof ethenol is not safe to drink because it will damage your kidneys,liver,etc and it will also kill a massive amount of brain cells.
Unless you have a death wish,or would like to be brain damaged,you better cut your booze to 50% or under.

minime
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Post by minime » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:08 pm

Hey guys I agree wholeheartedly but the original question was is it possible to cut pure alcohol to safe level to drink. I think there is the possibility but I certainly would not do so unless I knew with absolute certainty how the alcohol came to be 100 percent pure. I cut my 95% to 50 for storage and consumption but I know exactly where it came from :D

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Re: uh

Post by zymos » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:50 pm

Uncle Jesse wrote: I beg to differ on that.

.
I beg to differ on your differing...

from the website of a large producer of Ethanol at
http://www.pharmco-prod.com/pages/alcoholintro.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

"To increase the purity to 200 proof (100% Ethanol), a third component must be introduced, breaking the water-ethanol bond and allowing the new mixture to distill off. This final mixture then has to be re-distilled in order to obtain 200 proof (pure) Ethanol. New technology now achieves this same result through the use of molecular sieves. These added steps is the reason 200 proof Ethanol is always more expensive than 190 proof. "

I am not telling people they should be drinking lab alcohol, and I'm certainly not telling people to drink undiluted high proof alcohol of ANY origin.

I am just saying that 200 proof alcohol does not NECESSARILY contain any poisonous substances.

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Post by rad14701 » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:55 pm

It just isn't worth haggling over how pure you can get Ethanol as no matter how pure you get it it will just re-absorb water anyway, unless you keep it in a vacuum... It'll never stay pure and the only thing you can do with pure Ethanol, from a layman's standpoint, is to burn it as fuel... It really doesn't matter how pure it is if you need to cut it to drink it anyway... Oh yeah, I'll work WAY extra hard to make sure I get ALL the water out so I can just add water back in to make it drinkable...

It must be Spring because I'm seeing an awful lot of arguing just for the sake of arguing as of late... You guys going into rut or something...??? :shock:

Take a swig and chill... 8)

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odd

Post by Uncle Jesse » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:17 pm

I'm still not sure how you can get 200 proof ethanol outside a vacuum environment. I know a molecular sieve can be used to this effect, but my understanding is that ethanol will yank water out of the air to hit the azeotrope.

Perhaps it's only alcohol vapor which acts in this manner?
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Post by Husker » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:29 pm

Liquid ethanol will also pull water out of the air. If zeolite (sieve) is used to produce pure ethanol, then to keep it pure (99 to 100%), you MUST cap the end product or it will drop right back to 96%

H.

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Post by Old_Blue » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:37 pm

Dang, I must be plum crazy. I'm happy with 40%
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Post by JoeDistiller » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:09 pm

What ever came of Laimon??
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Laimon
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Post by Laimon » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:57 am

Well, I have tried ..and here' what i have done :
1- i diluted the 99.9% ethanol i have, with distilled water, and cut off to 40%.

2- I added concentrated berry juice 50/50 .

3- final product was a berry liquer about 20% alcohol.

I did taste, i had about 100ml ..i suffered few big farts but it's ok .. :-)

guys i never said that i will drink a 99.9% ethanol or 200 proof ! ..it is impossible !

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