First stripping run of sour mash question

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Jocko1960
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First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:04 am

Ok, just did a first time sour mash and decided just to run it hard and collect everything down to about 30% (tossed the first 200ml) with the intention of adding the output to my next still run. Don't know if it matters but being a 1st ferment there was no backset added to the mash.

The distillate smells rank! I mean "OMG that smells like sh*t!!" rank. Normal for a stripping run down that far or is something screwy about the run?
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squeezins
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by squeezins » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:28 am

did you run just liquid or on the grain. Check and see if you may have scorched grain in the bottom of the boiler. I run quite a bit of sour mash and never had a bad smell afterwards. You might have run it a little hard and got alot of tails. 30% is ok. As a rule of thumb i pot still down to about the abv of starting mash and keep with the heads for the next run.. if all else fails dump it back in and run again a little slower.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Jocko1960
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:48 pm

Off the grain and filtered through a nylon bag. Was hoping it was just the smell of the tails, but being the first time I've ever ran it I don't know what it's supposed to smell like.
Only other things I've ran are sugar washes. This smells nothing like those.

I kept the ferment going just adding back water, sugar and about 2 gals of backset from the first run on top of what was left in the fermenter. My plan is to let this finish fermenting, strain it into the boiler, add the output from the first run and run it slow. If it still has the bad smell I'll just dump the whole thing and start a new batch from the beginning.
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JonB
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by JonB » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:49 am

I've seen this myself.

We had a corn mash that was fermented with a mix of yeasts that started to smell kind of like cheese. When it was stripped, the product started to smell a bit like cheese too (mostly in the tails though). :|

Proper sanitation was followed, so I chocked this up to the yeast.

Maybe we should air it out before adding it to the 2nd run.

Thoughts?

trthskr4
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by trthskr4 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:35 am

Some bacteria or infections will cause a "dogshit" or rotten egg smell in the wash and some of that will carry over to the distillate. Some are hard to get the smell out of. If it doesn't come out in the second run you'll have tainted both ferments with the odor and ruined both. I'd suggest dumping everything out and sanitizing everything, rinse your grains before adding to the new ferment and then start over with clean equipment.


On the other hand it may have been a lactic ferment starting in which case is sometimes desireable but if stopped and distilled too soon will also impart that smell. A lactic ferment will cause a white film to start over the top of the ferment or backset if left in a container for a while. I also believe it is what causes the spider web looking layer on top of ferments and backsets. Next time it smells like that give it 7 days to see if it goes away and only slightly smells like soured milk then run it. If it still smells like full on dogshit, dump it, disinfect and start over.
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JonB
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by JonB » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:15 am

definitely no dog sh*t smell.

the cheese smell was on a 20L mash that was rendered down to about 1L of low wines. The smell is still there but now more subtle - definitely not as pungent. The taste seems fine though. I'm sure after blending with my other low wines and aging in oak it'll be fine. I might just even let the bottle of low wines breathe for a day or so to see what happens.

Another issue (maybe I should start a new thread?) is that my low wines are clear when they come off the apperatice, but when they sit in the bottle for a few weeks I start to see flecks of blue - much like how fish food looks in a fish tank. This has the look of copper patina and so I can only think that it is the result of the sulphur being broken down by the copper column and ending up in my low wines. I've run my low wines thru a paper coffee filter which removes the stuff. It is still a bit strange to see. Is my mash PH too high or low?

BTW - The initial ingedients are 80% corn, 15% Rye, 5% malt-barley

JonB
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by JonB » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:21 am

ok just after I posted this I found another similar post - but more questions......

Response from Uncle Jessie:
you mean blue flecks in your distillate? if so you're running too hot/fast.

*** My Response: Isn't that what you do to a stripping run? What is too hot - the mash or the condensed distillate?

Response from Miraculix:
Blue distillate means that you have had a mash that is too high in pH. It
reacts with the DAP in the nutritient and the copper, and distillate turns
blue. Acidify the mash (check it first if it needs to) with some simple citric
acid. In Norway we can buy citric acid in the food stores. Recon you can
do the same thing. A good pH in the mash is around 3,5 to 4,5.

*** My Response: No DAP was used.

Jocko1960
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:32 pm

Ok back from a week on the road. The second batch of this has fermented out as clear as water but there is a thin film on top. The film is clear also with no spiderweb looking stuff. Thoughts anyone?
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Dnderhead
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Dnderhead » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:49 pm

should look like a light beer, maybe , a small amount of oil on top.

Jocko1960
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:14 pm

Seems like a like oil dnder. I'm going to go ahead and run this batch. It's all a learning process. Mistakes are part of it. Could be it's fine and I'm just over paranoid.
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Dnderhead
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Dnderhead » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:41 pm

the type of corn? don't know never had a lot of oil , but nothing to be paranoid about, it will either work or not.
experimenting with different mashes, Iv made a bunch of bobos . some bad, some surprisingly good .

(the difference between a apprentice and a professional,, is that the professional knows how to cover up mistakes)

Jocko1960
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:42 pm

Used flaked maize. Could be spoilage but no experience to go by so going to go with what I have and see how it turns out. If bad then no big loss, just give it another go from the beginning.

Just my third run. The first 2 were sugar/turbos. What I did different this time other than the type of ingrediants was that I run it up to the first drips wide open then cut the heat down where previously I heated it up to where I was anticipating I was getting close to operating temps and lowered the heat before I reached that point. Could be I burnt the wash (just doesn't have what I would expect a burnt smell to be) or it could be that I had some spoilage during the ferment or it could be that the smell of the output is just that much different from the 1st 2 washes I did and I wasn't expecting that. That's what I'm trying to figure at this point.

After sitting for a week the output doesn't smell as bad as it did at first but still has a funky smell to me.
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trthskr4
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by trthskr4 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:33 am

Grains will smell different from sugar washes, tastes different too :D ...Yummy. I suspect your film was oil or something to not at all be concerned about. Run it and put the first strip in there with it.
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Dnderhead
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Dnderhead » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:54 am

often the beer guys will steer clear of corn that has not been "degermd" because of oil but it doe not bother us as much.
http://howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Jocko1960
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:21 am

Thanks for the input guys. I'll find out today how it's going to come out. The wash smells decent in a right kind of way.
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Jocko1960
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:26 am

OK pretty sure now what I was smelling was tails. I ran this latest batch slow and collected in small 1/2 pint jars. Late in the run I recognized the smell I had on the last run.
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Jocko1960
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by Jocko1960 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:25 pm

Ok guys I have another question. Did my last run but wasn't going to be able to continue with another ferment right away. I kept a couple gals of backset from the run. I don't have the option to freeze it, is it possible to keep that in a couple closed containers for oh say a week and it still be usable? Is the risk a possibility of mold or something else that I won't be able to see?
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blind drunk
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Re: First stripping run of sour mash question

Post by blind drunk » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:39 pm

Here are some answers. I'm in the same position as you; no freezer/fridge space and no CO2. Mine's holding in a cool dark place, with the top loose just in case. BD.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... it=backset
I do all my own stunts

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