Apple brandy question

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Virandell
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Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:44 am

Hi guys I found 8-9 wild apple trees and I am hoping to make apple brandy from them, together probably would be maybe 60-80kg.
I have two questions
Can they be treated like plums ? I mean cut them with a drill paddle add pectoenzyme and squeeze the apples after 10 days ~ and leave only the juice for the rest of fermentation ? Or I will need a juicer ?
And second question
Any idea how many kg of Apples I will fit in 30L fermenting bucket and how much juice I can expect ? Eventually I will buy like 50-80L barrel for it :D

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Demy
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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:20 am

I have been making some apple brandy for a few years now. The drill works but they are harder than prunes to grind. Then I built a tool with an engine. However, I let it ferment with all the pulp, no enzymes, no added sugar, add sparkling wine yeast, distil it with the pulp (with a bit of difficulty). I tried macerating (at the end of distillation) the apple peels in the final distillate and the result is excellent. I make small quantities, others may have other different experiences. I have never weighed the quantity of apples but I believe that at least 30kg go into a 30L fermenter but I'm not sure, it's an "eye" evaluation. Good job!

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by rubberduck71 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:33 am

Can't remember where I saw the link on this site, but somebody was using a small wood chipper from Tractor Supply to grind up their apples. If memory serves, it was not that expensive??? Sub $200 range...

Good luck & let us know how it turns out! :thumbup:
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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:51 pm

rubberduck71 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:33 am
Can't remember where I saw the link on this site, but somebody was using a small wood chipper from Tractor Supply to grind up their apples. If memory serves, it was not that expensive??? Sub $200 range...

Good luck & let us know how it turns out! :thumbup:
I will defenetly do :D I been speaking with my grandmother and she will borrow me machine for making mince I will use that to grind apples :D

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Farside » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:42 pm

I use a garbage disposal unit. Best to get a continuous operation one otherwise it will overheat after about 5 gallons of pulp.
I cut a hole in the top of a coffee table and the disposal unit sits in the hole. A 5 gallon pail fits under the table and catches the pulp.

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Bushman
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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Bushman » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:48 pm

rubberduck71 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:33 am
Can't remember where I saw the link on this site, but somebody was using a small wood chipper from Tractor Supply to grind up their apples. If memory serves, it was not that expensive??? Sub $200 range...

Good luck & let us know how it turns out! :thumbup:
That is the way I do it but the wood chipper is from Harbor Freight.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=51537

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Demy
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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:31 am

This is the shredder I built with a washing machine motor. Very basic.
20200926_172730.jpg

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:53 am

Ahh I have couple of problems I am not sure if I will use them apples this year :/
First I don't have power regulator and I don't see any interesting ones where I live and delivery from Poland is 30£ so the same price like power regulator
Second I have 30L fermenting bucket so probably after separation of apples I would end up with 10L of juice and that would not cover my heating element in the keg and I don't want really add water to lose the flavour.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:43 am

Virandell wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:53 am
Ahh I have couple of problems I am not sure if I will use them apples this year :/
First I don't have power regulator and I don't see any interesting ones where I live and delivery from Poland is 30£ so the same price like power regulator
Second I have 30L fermenting bucket so probably after separation of apples I would end up with 10L of juice and that would not cover my heating element in the keg and I don't want really add water to lose the flavour.
I would still try to squeeze the apples to get as much juice as possible and add water if necessary. It will still be a good experience and you will get a good product. When I used the drill I had to add water to be able to grind them and I still had a good product. For the power of thermoregulation it would be a necessary thing. I use a heating pad for small quantities.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:24 am

Demy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:43 am
I would still try to squeeze the apples to get as much juice as possible and add water if necessary. It will still be a good experience and you will get a good product. When I used the drill I had to add water to be able to grind them and I still had a good product. For the power of thermoregulation it would be a necessary thing. I use a heating pad for small quantities.
Still I am having problem with power regulator but I will try get it next week maybe
And if you say with water will be alright I will do it then ^^

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:30 am

Virandell wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:24 am
Demy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:43 am
I would still try to squeeze the apples to get as much juice as possible and add water if necessary. It will still be a good experience and you will get a good product. When I used the drill I had to add water to be able to grind them and I still had a good product. For the power of thermoregulation it would be a necessary thing. I use a heating pad for small quantities.
Still I am having problem with power regulator but I will try get it next week maybe
And if you say with water will be alright I will do it then ^^
I got a good product. Fruit generally changes flavor / scent during fermentation so don't expect an apple flavor bomb. To add extra flavor I recommend setting aside some apple peels which you will then add to the final brandy. It is also possible to leave some juice and add it to the pot in the final distillation.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by rubberduck71 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:37 pm

Bushman wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:48 pm
rubberduck71 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:33 am
Can't remember where I saw the link on this site, but somebody was using a small wood chipper from Tractor Supply to grind up their apples. If memory serves, it was not that expensive??? Sub $200 range...

Good luck & let us know how it turns out! :thumbup:
That is the way I do it but the wood chipper is from Harbor Freight.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=51537
Good call Bushman - I get Harbor Freight & Tractor Supply confused sometimes! :wtf: I guess I need some ginko biloba...
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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:53 pm

Demy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:30 am
Virandell wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:24 am
Demy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:43 am
I would still try to squeeze the apples to get as much juice as possible and add water if necessary. It will still be a good experience and you will get a good product. When I used the drill I had to add water to be able to grind them and I still had a good product. For the power of thermoregulation it would be a necessary thing. I use a heating pad for small quantities.
Still I am having problem with power regulator but I will try get it next week maybe
And if you say with water will be alright I will do it then ^^
I got a good product. Fruit generally changes flavor / scent during fermentation so don't expect an apple flavor bomb. To add extra flavor I recommend setting aside some apple peels which you will then add to the final brandy. It is also possible to leave some juice and add it to the pot in the final distillation.
I made agees ago from apple juice from no concentrate and tasted amazing but like you saying I added couple of apples aswell and oak chips to macerate.
So you think go for it ? The only problem what I have aswell is voltage regulator can I do stripping run on 2kw and eventually save low wines untill I will get regulator ?
Last edited by Virandell on Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Demy
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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:09 pm

Low wines keep for a long time. If the column and the condenser of the product allow it you can do it, the important thing is not to have burns.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:28 pm

Demy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:09 pm
Low wines keep for a long time. If the column and the condenser of the product allow it you can do it, the important thing is not to have burns.
No it shouldn't be a problem I will make sure I will filter it right :)

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:32 pm

Demy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:09 pm
Low wines keep for a long time. If the column and the condenser of the product allow it you can do it, the important thing is not to have burns.
1 more question is that how minced apple mash look like ? if yes I think I will leave it this year as I think without press that will be pain in the ass work to squeeze all them apple mash after

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by The Baker » Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:01 pm

You would need to squeeze the mash if you wanted a clear liquid; cider.
You don't want to drink mash.

But you can distil the fermented mash.
Perhaps with some added liquid (water or apple juice or...) so it is less likely to scorch.
Probably external heating is better here than an element.

Whatever but it can be done.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by CikCikCikPogodi » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:21 am

I have this Frankenstein grinder. It needs some improvements. But you can make it out of washing machine motor, old boiler. It has four blades on one propeller inside.
Image

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Demy
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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Demy » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:40 am

Virandell wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:32 pm
Demy wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:09 pm
Low wines keep for a long time. If the column and the condenser of the product allow it you can do it, the important thing is not to have burns.
1 more question is that how minced apple mash look like ? if yes I think I will leave it this year as I think without press that will be pain in the ass work to squeeze all them apple mash after
Hi, great job! Chopped apples are dense I know. You can squeeze them later if you want because more juice will be released with fermentation. If, on the other hand, you want to distill with the pulp, you will need to have a perforated basket inside the pot (as I currently do), or with indirect heating, or with steam heating (this is a project I have in mind, look at my post here https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 92&t=80392

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:13 pm

Demy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:40 am
Hi, great job! Chopped apples are dense I know. You can squeeze them later if you want because more juice will be released with fermentation. If, on the other hand, you want to distill with the pulp, you will need to have a perforated basket inside the pot (as I currently do), or with indirect heating, or with steam heating (this is a project I have in mind, look at my post here https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 92&t=80392
Will do thanks alot buddy btw that's video it's not mine I been just wondering is that's how they look like :D ,unfortunately in my setup I can't do steam distillation but in the future I am defenetly thinking about Oil keg ?(i think that how is called :D it's keg inside a keg and it's heated with oil or glycerine) anyway I have last questions about these apples :D
Today I tried them they are tiny but nice red sweet bitter today I found another tree one apple probably weighs 1lbs but they are sour as hell you cant even eat them I was thinking about the proportion 80% sweet and bitter 20% sour what do you think?
And there is also a question about distillation
I will do it on my 140cm copper column of course Without reflux, I just have a dilemma, could you guys advice which one is better ?
First idea only one distillation with full packing and fraction cut why one? Due to the fact that the heaters need 12L of wash to cover them and from all those apples I will have maybe 6L of low wines And I would have to add another 12L of water to second distillation to cover it at all.
? Second idea
Without packing the first distillation Without cutting the fraction to collect the low wines And the second distillation, dilute 6L of low wines with 12L of water, which will give a better effect?
I am worried if I will add 12L of water to low wines on second distillation it will steal to much taste and maybe only 1 distillation with packing would give better effect ?

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by NZChris » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:26 pm

Having an element at 12l in a 30l still is a really bad idea and will cause you problems until you fix it.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:45 pm

NZChris wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:26 pm
Having an element at 12l in a 30l still is a really bad idea and will cause you problems until you fix it.
I just order a new one 50L keg but it will come in 4 weeks for my flute but for now I have to do on that 30L keg and I think in 4 weeks might be no apple left I would appreciate your opinion as you know your stuff :D
What you think is the best option from them two ?

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by NZChris » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:20 pm

The cheapest and quickest option is to pay a tradesman to install a second element as close to the bottom as he can. You can use both elements when you want to shorten the heat up time, then disconnect the top element.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:28 pm

NZChris wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:20 pm
The cheapest and quickest option is to pay a tradesman to install a second element as close to the bottom as he can. You can use both elements when you want to shorten the heat up time, then disconnect the top element.
It's kinda pointless for me now becouse as soon the 50L keg will gonna come I will sell my 30L one

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by NZChris » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:32 pm

Who would want to buy a 30l boiler with an element at 12l?

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:05 pm

NZChris wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:32 pm
Who would want to buy a 30l boiler with an element at 12l?
Alot of Polish people doing only neutral as they like make liquors (herbal ones fruits garlic ones amber for robbing on body etc ) so I don't think they are really bothered (as I been untill now :D)

Or maybe even some homebrewer to do a beer with biab them heating elements are quite good as they have 8w/cm2 so is very low possiblity of scorching anything

Anyway you have any suggestion for me from those two options :mrgreen: ?

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by NZChris » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:27 pm

No.

Make sure the element height in the new keg is low enough that it doesn't cause you the same problems.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:29 pm

NZChris wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:27 pm
No.

Make sure the element height in the new keg is low enough that it doesn't cause you the same problems.
Yep I texted the guy to make sure this time to put it low :)

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by The Baker » Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:45 pm

Virandell wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:28 pm
NZChris wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:20 pm
The cheapest and quickest option is to pay a tradesman to install a second element as close to the bottom as he can. You can use both elements when you want to shorten the heat up time, then disconnect the top element.
It's kinda pointless for me now because as soon the 50L keg will gonna come I will sell my 30L one
It may be worth while to keep the smaller keg for a pre-heater or a thumper.
They are both valuable distillation aids and easily set up.

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Re: Apple brandy question

Post by Virandell » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:49 am

The Baker wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:45 pm
Virandell wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:28 pm
NZChris wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:20 pm
The cheapest and quickest option is to pay a tradesman to install a second element as close to the bottom as he can. You can use both elements when you want to shorten the heat up time, then disconnect the top element.
It's kinda pointless for me now because as soon the 50L keg will gonna come I will sell my 30L one
It may be worth while to keep the smaller keg for a pre-heater or a thumper.
They are both valuable distillation aids and easily set up.

Geoff
Well eventually I will leave it for heating the water for lazy mashing for whisky :D
If anybody can suggest me what to do from those two options what I said I would appreciate that I am still not sure should I distill one time with packing or two times with dilluting :)

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