Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Information about fruit/vegetable type washes.

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MichiganCornhusker
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Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

(Not sure if this should be "Fruits/Veggies" or "Recipe Development")

OK, first of all I shouldn't call this a vodka. But, for folks searching for info on using potatoes for spirits I figured "Potato Vodka" would make it easier to search. I have noticed some interest in using potatoes, so I am sharing my experience so far.

This is not a real recipe, yet, either, but rather a description of my process, my experience, and my observations. I would LOVE to have others try this out, or a variation of this, and report back. I would welcome any info from others as to what they have done with potatoes, or what they might suggest I try to do differently for my next batch. I'm kinda feeling my way in the dark on this one, not finding a lot of solid info to go on. I am specifically asking for comments or critique on any parts of my process here, no holding back!

Second of all, I will say up front that my experience so far boils down to: lot of work, low yield, big mess. But I do have a rare spirit, now, that I am having a great deal of fun drinking and sharing. And I happen to still enjoy making a big mess.

This is a little long winded, but if you are thinking about doing something with potatoes, you must not be afraid of work.

What I have found out is that potatoes are kind of a last resort for making spirits. My understanding is that they are around 15% usable starch/sugar compared to grains being closer to 80%. So, it takes a LOT of them.
I used those numbers to come up with this "recipe". I wanted to try to make the potato the majority contributor to this spirit, so here is the math I used:

100 lbs potatoes x 15% = 15 lbs fermentables
15 lbs grains x 80% = 12 lbs fermentables

And then based on 27 lbs of fermentables, I figured about 15 gallons of water.
I end up using a little more water to thin out the wort, and end up with around 1.05 OG

I use all malted grains to help ensure a good starch conversion.
I chose the variety of malts because I was afraid of what the potatoes might taste like. I kinda chickened out and figured if I was going to do all this work, the grains might salvage what might possibly be an otherwise retched spirit.
Since then I have more confidence in the potato being able to stand proud, so feel free to mix and match malts however you fancy.

(any feedback on that reasoning would be appreciated!)

Ingredients:
100 lbs white round potatoes
5 lbs malted barley
5 lbs malted wheat
5 lbs malted rye
3 tablespoons calcium chloride
yeast

Prepare the potatoes:

**Begin Safety Note: First of all, when trying to bake 100 lbs of potatoes, you might be tempted to just take the racks out of your oven, stuff it full of potatoes, quickly shut the door, and turn up the heat. That would be dangerous, and stupid, and only an idiot would do that.( :oops: ) The best way is to simply put the spuds on two racks in the oven, leave a little space around the edges for air flow, and bake them in waves. End Safety Note **

Bake or roast the potatoes. I have done this a few different ways so far. I've slow baked them at about 150-200 for about 6-8 hours. I've baked them at 350 for about 1 hr 45 minutes. At Jimbo's suggestion, I roasted some in the ground by burying them in a hole on top of some hot beechwood coals (really enjoyed that). I've also smoked them. Each method worked to make the potatoes creamy and they had a "baked" potato texture and flavor. I think this is important because I have also done some by just boiling without roasting, and I think that finished spirit was a little more harsh than the ones I have done with baking first. So my current suggestion is to bake them at 350, and smoke 25 lbs if you can. I smoked them by simply building a plywood box, setting it over an electric hot plate, and putting water soaked beechwood chips on a metal tray. It produced a lot of smoke, and it infuses the whole potato, in just a few hours, with a backyard barbeque flavor. This is actually worth doing just for having a bunch of smoked potatoes to eat, they are delicious. After potatoes are baked and smoked, I cut them into quarters, I put them in my BOP skins and all, just cover them with water, and heat them just until they reach a boil. I do the boil for several reasons: I think the hot water draws out the flavors of the spuds, especially the smokiness, I think it help soften them up even more for the smashing phase, and as much as anything, I think sanitizing them by boiling is a good idea.

Mashing:
Using about 6-8 5 gallon buckets, I dump the hot water and potatoes into buckets, dividing it up so that no bucket is more that about 1/3 full. Then, using a drywall mixer on a 1/2 corded drill, I mix and smash them up in the buckets. There is a bit of a trick to this. If there is not enough water in the bucket, it will be difficult to get the potatoes to mash up well, but if there is too much water, the occasional potato will come zinging out of the bucket, and you will be impressed by its velocity. I just kind of keep dumping from bucket to bucket adding wet slurry or dry slurry as required. By just using enough water to cover the potatoes in the pot, it seems to work out to be the right consistency in the end. Once I have all the potatoes smashed up good in the buckets I let them cool to 150 degrees. While they are cooling, I grind up the malted grains, and heat up about 5 gallons of water for the mashing process. I add the grains to the water when it reaches about 160-165, mix it all up well, and then divide the grain mixture between all of the buckets of potatoes, and mix well. This has been ending up just under 150 degrees for me, and then I put all of the buckets together in a herd and cover with plastic and blankets. After about an hour, check for starch conversion with iodine. If temps have fallen too much, and I'm still worried about conversion, I dump the buckets back into the BOP, bring temps back up to 150 degrees, and then dump into my two trash cans for fermenting, and give it another hour. I have had good conversions each time. After everything is in the trash cans, I add about 10 gallons of cold water, divided up between the two trash cans. If this doesn't bring my temps down far enough to pitch yeast, I just cover and wait. Feel free to use chillers if you got 'em.

I have found it necessary to add 3 tablespoons calcium chloride to bring the pH up in my worts. I just test with pH strips, so it's no real science, but my first batch was quite sluggish about fermentation. I checked it and estimated a pH of around 3.0, so added the calcium chloride and it really took off. I've just been adding it ever since, and all seems to be going well. Strangely, I've had some fast ferments, and some slower ones. I don't know why, but I just let it go until it starts to clear. Anywhere from a few days to two weeks. When fermentation is complete, I rack off as much as I can from the trash cans, and then squeeze the rest through strainer bags to get the rest of the liquid out. This is kind of a pain, but I am used to it from fermenting my corn whiskeys on-grain, and it ends up being about 30% of the liquid, so I feel the need to do it. For my first batches I then put the liquid into carboys to settle for a few days, and then carefully racked off only the clear liquid to strip. For my latest batch, I went straight from bag straining to pot still, and stripped everything dirty. I actually think I prefer the taste of these latest low wines to the stuff I racked clear. But, I haven't done the spirit run on this latest batch, so, too soon to compare finished products yet.

With the 100 lb potato batch, I got 2-1/2 gallons low wines. I haven't stripped it yet, but based on my other runs, expect to end up with a little more than a gallon of finished spirit. I assume this recipe is could be scaled down for less work, but I figure if I'm going to do this at all I want to end up with enough product to enjoy and stash away to monitor aging. I have left everything white so far, so I can't say what oak would do with this.

Based on the runs I've done so far, I would not describe the finished spirit as a vodka. It has a nice creamy sweetness, a heavier mouth feel that the whiskeys I've been making, and a definite "earthiness". I'm afraid I don't know what to compare it to. I really like the smokey note in the spirit, very subtle. The smoke is not overwhelming at all, in fact if you really want the smoke to carry I would recommend doubling the amount of potatoes run through the smoker. I can honestly say that I am surprisingly happy with the way these runs have turned out.

I just got some enzymes, and I am considering dumping the malt, and doing a 100% potato mash. Of course, for me, that would probably mean bumping my potatoes up to TWO hundred pounds, and I'm not sure I can get my head wrapped around that yet. :crazy:
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by WhiteDevil504 »

Awesome write up! Disappointed not to see the oven picture here but I understand. Thanks for starting this up, hard for me to imagine the cleanup after doing 100 lbs of potato.... Your wife must be much more understanding than mine ;)
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Red Rim »

Nicely done! Thanks for putting the work into this. I have tried it once and had a miserable failure. I keep chuckling at the thought of the oven stuffed with taters, I remember you writing about this before. You could tell me twenty more times and I would keep laughing! You sir are a glutton for punishment. I like it!!
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by scuba stiller »

Very interesting. Thanks for your efforts. Looking forward to following this thread.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

OK, update time. I just finished a spirit run on a second batch of this recipe and I can officially say it is damn tastey! :D
Not sure if it is the grain combo, the smoking of the spuds, or just natural deliciousness of the lowly potato, but I really like this spirit.
Doesn't come across as potato, but all of the mellow sweet creamy goodness of a nice baked potato is there.
Hows that go in construction, you can have it fast, cheap, or good, pick any two? Well, you only get to pick one with potatoes. It will be good, but not cheap or quick.
BUT, if any of you out there are intrigued by the idea of using potatoes, and you're not afraid of a big mess and low yield, I can say you will be happy with the results of this combo. :thumbup:
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Jimbo »

Nice work mch! Looking forward to a taste someday someway.

cheers
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by scuba stiller »

Thanks for the report. The "Fast, Good, or Cheap" application is duly noted.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Just a quick update on the potatoes. I got into the jars last night to do a little tasting, and I need to say, again, that I think it is important to bake the potatoes as part of the process, rather than boil.
I could be wrong about it making a difference, but the batches I did with roasted/smoked potatoes are great, and the batch I did with boiled potatoes is Vile. Retched. Undrinkable. Tastes like biting into a bag of potato peelings.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by rumbuff »

Excellent post! I'll have to try this soon. I've tasted the Schramm vodka made here in B.C., and I have to say it tastes like potato peelings. I wonder if that's because they didn't bake? I'll make sure to bake mine, no point taking the risk
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Brutal »

Thanks for documenting this. My little experiment was interesting enough that I'll likely try your method this fall too. Just have to come up with a way too get 200 pounds of potatoes cheap. Then try top bake them all. If you went straight from baking to mashing it would probably be quick to boil. I also wonder how much removing the skins would affect taste.

Thanks again for sharing this.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Brutal wrote:If you went straight from baking to mashing it would probably be quick to boil. I also wonder how much removing the skins would affect taste.
Brutal, reading about your experimenting was one of the reasons I thought I could even try this. Not sure how peeling the potatoes would affect the taste. I used cheap thin skinned white potatoes, so the skin wasn't at all heavy. A bunch of fat russets might be a different story. I've only done three batches of this, so I can't really be sure what affects what. I'm pretty sure the baking is important, and I would guess that the smoking makes a difference even though it doesn't come through as a heavy smoke. I'm really against only boiling because that batch turned out so awful. Just night and day bad. That's why I did the third batch, to see if I could replicate the baked batch flavor.

A friend of mine was out on the town last night and sent me this, perhaps an infusion would save my crap batch....
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Brutal »

Nice score!
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Brutal wrote:Then try to bake them all..
I haven't perfected it yet, but Jimbo suggested roasting the potatoes in the ground. I think this is a brilliant idea if I could figure how much coals, how far away from the coals, how long, etc.... I did do some of mine that way, but they didn't get smokey enough. I would like to try it again sometime though.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by rob3rd »

MichiganCornhusker,

Great stuff! It is my opinion that you created a spirit that is a predecessor to any vodka that comes from the Ukrainian steppes or vast fields of eastern Poland. Here's why I say that:

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as "craft" or small batch vodka. This is my opinion, but I believe it is well founded. Among other things, the practice of distillation evolved from the need to maximize crop yields, utilize forage, and mitigate the spoilage and waste of unconsumed yield. If you buy into the philosophy that craft = taste, then the evolution of vodka becomes easier to understand. If a given community produced a spirit from its agricultural surplus and it didn't taste good to them, they probably did one of two things: 1) They tried to make adjustments to make it taste better, or 2) They re-distilled as much as they needed to in order to strip out unwanted taste. To do this requires something that would equate to an industrial process. Over time, that is exactly what happened. The process of stripping out undesirable taste from ethanol to create vodka became the industrial process that we see in vodka makers today.

But what about the communities that created a good tasting spirit from their crop surplus? There was no need to create an industrial process because they liked what they were getting from their small scale distilleries. Why mess with a good thing, except to find a way to make more good tasting stuff.

What evidence do I have to support my claim? Truthfully, not much other than anecdotes from people I know and a little research on the history of vodka. I believe most small distilleries that created by pre-vodka spirit were wiped out by war or time. But the very existence of what is popularly known as "moonshine" in America supports my idea.

Moonshine is to North America what vodka is to Eastern Europe/Russia. You can make it out of anything available. Good tasting "white lightning" continues down through generations of distillers. Bad moonshine becomes "flavored" or eventually disappears because no one wants to drink it. Bad vodka is flavored, or it just gets re-distilled until the taste is gone.

This is why, in my opinion, that moonshine (in all of its forms) is truly the American spirit, just as vodka is the spirit of Eastern Europe. It's by and from the people, and represents their skill and resourcefulness.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Exciting day, just picked up 400# of jumbo sweets! And they call them jumbos for a reason. Beauregards and Covingtons.
i've been wanting to try this recipe with sweet potatoes for quite a while.
I am looking forward to updating this thread soon...
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by jedneck »

You had best be building a steam rig. That's a lot of dmn spuds to be squeezing.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Jimbo »

Ha I love it. The bigun is obscene. What possessed ya to buy 400 lbs of sweet taters? Never mind, stupid question. I just had a sip of your YamShine to cheers your purchase. Cheers.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Jimbo wrote:What possessed ya to buy 400 lbs of sweet potatoes?
Prolly the same thing that possesses you to have 5 carboys of beer waiting for a tapline. Oh, and nowhere near how many apples you picked this year. :thumbup:
Long story, but bottom line is a farmer made me a deal I couldn't refuse. Some are more obscene than the bigun, I never seen taters this big and gnarly.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by cranky »

That's funny, I've had thoughts about sweet potatoes ever since I bought one a few years ago that was as big as my head, no kidding. It was something like 5 pounds. One thing I read when I was doing Soju research was that some of the Soju makers use sweet potatoes to convert the starch in the rice.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

The first 45# of jumbo sweets going in the oven. Sweet potato hooch, here we come.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by yakattack »

Nice. Can't wait to see how this one turns out.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by skow69 »

Dude! I salute your perseverance. Hope it turns out great.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Well, this is gonna be fun.
These sweet potatoes are amazing.
I'm baking them in the oven for 3 hrs @ 350F.
They are coming out incredibly sweet, definitely a lot of self-converting of starch happening in there.

I put some of the juice left on the cutting board onto my refractometer and it was off the scale, which reads up to 1.120

With white potatoes, I leave the skins on and mash everything together. These skins slip right off the flesh, leaving pure sweet potato goodness for the mash bucket.

The taters closest to the walls of the oven get the most heat, and the sugars caramelize just under the skin. I've already eaten a lot of that. It's like sweet potato toffee.

Including pic of oven to try to give a sense of scale, these things are huge I tell ya!

For your viewing pleasure, I give you: Potato Porn
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Jimbo »

JAYZUS H! :shock: :wtf: Them undressed hot sweet taters is lookin plum sexxxy, they some big plump sexy girls, woop!
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Brutal »

MCH I lice you man, you're the craziest guy I know! Holy crapping crap those are some big m#^&&@#@%^^&^&%ers!! I'm gonna have to buddy up with a farmer now lol.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by jedneck »

Damn it them some big spuds. My dirt's to rocky to grow them.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

It's official, these sweet taters are self converting.
I bake them in the oven and the starch is converted to sugars right there.
I made up a couple buckets yesterday, adding 4 gallons of water to about 45# of baked potatoes, and got SG 1.047.
I then heated it up to 150F, added liquid enzymes, let it go overnight, and still at SG 1.047. Way easier than working with white potatoes.
Only problem is that they go to total mush. Even with the 4 gallons of water added it seems too thick to try to ferment.

I'm going back and forth on this one. Half thinking about trying to do this as a 100% potato batch with no additional grains.
I really like the stuff I've made with the grains and white potatoes, but curious to find out what a straight all sweet potato hooch would taste like.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by Jimbo »

MichiganCornhusker wrote:...curious to find out what a straight all sweet potato hooch would taste like.
Dude!, You are the king of Yam jam! You already know how damn good this is gonna turn out. I still prize that little flask-o-yam from you. Crazy insanity, brings out profanity from humanity, got me looking up irrationally praising christianity.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by MichiganCornhusker »

Not so with these Jumbos, Jimbo! One of the many lessons learned making Yam Juice was that while yams are delicious in their own right, sweet potatoes they ain't. They're more like carrots.

These sugar bomb beauties are bonafide, intensified, dignified, certified, Organic Sweet Potatoes!

But, I don't think I'll be doing straight taters. I did try to squeeze the liquid from the slurry with a small fruit press and some GAFlat Geotextile, and I did find the bursting point of that fabric.
Not only is it too difficult to separate the juice from the tater, I'm afraid I'll lose too much spud flavor by not fermenting on-flesh. So, I'm gonna go with plan A and mix it all up with some wheat and barley malts.

If I need to water it down for fermentation, so be it, I will just need to do a couple extra strip runs, that's all.
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Re: Multi Grain Potato Vodka

Post by cranky »

Just my 2 cents but I think you need to ferment the mush as straight potatoes and use a steam stripper to distill.
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