Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

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JellybeanCorncob
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Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

Hey apple people
Just finished a single run apple brandy.
15 gal potstill.
Kirkland all natural apple juice.
Fermented with EC 1118
Starting gravity 1.050
Fermented dry.
My beer was 6.45 ABV.
This is the Second apple run I've done. I missed the apple bomb a little in the first run. Only one quart. It's been oaking for 5 months at 42% ABV. It's not bad but I'm concerned about oaking at such low ABV. Ok: I nailed the apple bomb with my latest batch but the ABV is 41%.
Until yesterday I thought a single run (pot still) was an appropriate way to distill apple. I've red maybe 100 threads about apple. Then I come across a thread where Jimbo is again talking about single runs for apple brandy. Later he mentions that he uses feints from previous runs. No shit Sherlock! Higher ABV. Ok I get it. :oops: :wtf: I now have feints to put in my next apple run. But I am not so sure about oaking my finished product at such a low ABV. I feel I have not screwed up, but I'm unsure of what to do.
1. Oak the 2 quarts for a year or so and see how it comes out, and save the feints for future runs?
2. Ferment a couple more gallons of apple, and throw everything back into the still and get a more appropriate ABV for oaking?
3. Or Redistill the finished spirit with a gallon of apple juice to raise ABV.
If you need any more specifics please let me know.
Thanks
JBC
Last edited by JellybeanCorncob on Wed May 03, 2017 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stargazer14
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by Stargazer14 »

I am in the exact same boat as you. I am headed to the orchard next week (when I have an open fermenter) and start another batch to run my feints.
I've had my first run on oak for a few weeks (and a few nukes) and I'm amazed at how much apple comes thru -
I kept reading where people were not getting the fruit come out, but the first run is very nice.
I only have 1/2 gallon but will go at another batch and barrel all (hopefully a gallon) for a year.

As a side note, I learned from my first mash that I had preservitives in the 5 gallons of cider -
after pitching, nothing happened. I didnt read the jugs carefully enough.
Did a lot of reading online to find a way thru that problem and finally got things going after
adding 3 more gallons of cider with no preservatives and a little more yeast. Came out dry.
RedwoodHillBilly

Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

JellybeanCorncob wrote:Hey apple people
Just finished a single run apple brandy.
15 gal potstill.
Kirkland all natural apple juice.
Fermented with EC 1118
Starting gravity 1.050
Fermented dry.
My beer was 6.45 ABV.
This is the Second apple run I've done. I missed the apple bomb a little in the first run. Only one quart. It's been oaking for 5 months at 42% ABV. It's not bad but I'm concerned about oaking at such low ABV. Ok: I nailed the apple bomb with my latest batch but the ABV is 41%.
Until yesterday I thought a single run (pot still) was an appropriate way to distill apple. I've red maybe 100 threads about apple. Then I come across a thread where Jimbo is again talking about single runs for apple brandy. Later he mentions that he uses feints from previous runs. No shit Sherlock! Higher ABV. Ok I get it. :oops: :wtf: I now have feints to put in my next apple run. But I am not so sure about oaking my finished product at such a low ABV. I feel I have not screwed up, but I'm unsure of what to do.
1. Oak the 2 quarts for a year or so and see how it comes out, and save the feints for future runs?
2. Ferment a couple more gallons of apple, and throw everything back into the still and get a more appropriate ABV for oaking?
3. Or Redistill the finished spirit with a gallon of apple juice to raise ABV.
If you need any more specifics please let me know.
Thanks
JBC
Ian, If it were me I would choose #2, although #3 might not be too bad if you used a thumper with just the juice in it. I think that #3 with some juice in the thumper will give you a stronger apple flavor.

While I know you don't have a thumper yet, perhaps we can work out how to get you a thumper when you come over.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by Stargazer14 »

I should follow up and say my ABV was not high either, about the same, around 40(just tested - 48). I did 2 runs with my 8 gallon batch, running the spirit run with the second 4gallon half.
Again, I have lots of apple coming thru and almost wouldnt want more, its that much flavor. Running on a pot still.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

Hey SG14: You must be in another hemisphere, the fruit around here has just set and won't be ripe till fall. I made sure that the juice I used was pure and had no preservatives. :D I'm confident with grains but the brandies are new to me.
What I'm looking to find out is if the lower ABV will bring over the Carmel- vanilla flavor that is drawn out of the toasted charred oak.

Howdy RH: yes!!! I do need a thumper. I think my problem would be solved with one. And I have a spare keg. I also have a small 3 gal all copper pot still that I could convert to a thumper. I have all summer to figure that one out. On a side note I was out on a ride last Sunday and saw 3 small apple orchards that looked very unkept all within 5 miles of my house. I'm sure there are plenty more between me and you. Maybe we can combine forces and pound out some brandy together. If we can get the owners to let go of some of there extra. :wink:
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

JellybeanCorncob wrote:Hey SG14: You must be in another hemisphere, the fruit around here has just set and won't be ripe till fall. I made sure that the juice I used was pure and had no preservatives. :D I'm confident with grains but the brandies are new to me.
What I'm looking to find out is if the lower ABV will bring over the Carmel- vanilla flavor that is drawn out of the toasted charred oak.

Howdy RH: yes!!! I do need a thumper. I think my problem would be solved with one. And I have a spare keg. I also have a small 3 gal all copper pot still that I could convert to a thumper. I have all summer to figure that one out. On a side note I was out on a ride last Sunday and saw 3 small apple orchards that looked very unkept all within 5 miles of my house. I'm sure there are plenty more between me and you. Maybe we can combine forces and pound out some brandy together. If we can get the owners to let go of some of there extra. :wink:
JBC
We can convert that spare keg into a thumper. I'm not into apple brandy at the moment, too many grains to turn into whiskey right now. Brandy might be nice in the future (far future) but I'm concentrating on bourbon and Irish right now.

I may have all the stuff to do it, I'll have to check what I have for ferrules left. I know that I have enough safety-silv 56 and brazing flux to do it as well as some SS tubing. Let me think about it and I'll get back to you about what we might need.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

Cool. I'm a grain guy also. I've never done an Irish style whiskey. Done a Irish lass though. But I digress. no problem.
Thanks for the advice.
I'm gonna see if I get any more replies before I make my decision on what to do with this batch of apple.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by Stargazer14 »

Mine has been on oak for just a couple weeks at 48% and the difference is very noticeable, so I wouldnt worry about a higher ABV for aging on oak.
The more you try to raise the AVB, the more apple you will loose, and in the end all you will have is oak. From my experience so far, I say oak what you have.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

RH: sorry I missed the last part of your post. Thanks. I'm great at sweating copper but ss is new to me. I used copper for my column and libeg.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by RedwoodHillBilly »

JellybeanCorncob wrote:RH: sorry I missed the last part of your post. Thanks. I'm great at sweating copper but ss is new to me. I used copper for my column and libeg.
JBC
Brazing is just soldering at a higher temperature. I did my current build using a soft solder Stay-Bright8 (6% Ag, 94% Sn) and a hard solder Safety-Silv 56 (56% Ag, Cu 22%, Zn 17%, Sn 5%). The problem with using the hard solder on thin SS is that it is easier to warp it, but it is stronger. Also I had 2 ferrules on opposite sides of the same hole, so I brazed the 1st ferrule, then soft soldered the one on the other side so I didn't melt the 1st one.

On a keg, it is much easier than the 18ga (.047") that I did my build with. Let me think about what it takes to make a thumper out of your keg. I assume that your boiler is 2" output, and you would like 2" input and output. I think that we should invert your keg and use the existing 2" ferrule as a drain and cut a new 3" hole in the (now) top. I have a few 3" ferrules laying around. I think that I may have a 3" - 2" unequal tee around here somewhere, if so that would make it easy. Let me drink :wink: about it and I'll get back to you.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by The Baker »

JellybeanCorncob wrote:Hey SG14: You must be in another hemisphere, the fruit around here has just set and won't be ripe till fall. I made sure that the juice I used was pure and had no preservatives. :D I'm confident with grains but the brandies are new to me.
What I'm looking to find out is if the lower ABV will bring over the Carmel- vanilla flavor that is drawn out of the toasted charred oak.

Howdy RH: yes!!! I do need a thumper. I think my problem would be solved with one. And I have a spare keg. I also have a small 3 gal all copper pot still that I could convert to a thumper. I have all summer to figure that one out. On a side note I was out on a ride last Sunday and saw 3 small apple orchards that looked very unkept all within 5 miles of my house. I'm sure there are plenty more between me and you. Maybe we can combine forces and pound out some brandy together. If we can get the owners to let go of some of there extra. :wink:
JBC
Use the spare keg for the thumper and keep the little pot for gin...

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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

I think it's thats just what I'll do Baker.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

So Stargazer14: Have you done a lot of apple brandy? This is only the second run of apple I've done and I did it the lazy way, with juice. I now have faints saved for the next time I attempt apple brandy. I know the flavors that are extracted in the 50 to 62-3% abv range with grains ans spearheads. But not as low as 40%. Do you or anybody here have experience oaking at such a low abv on apple? For me oak is a challenge because there are so many Variables involved. From where it's sourced, aged, toasted, charred. Then how much, how long, and at what abv? Just when I think I have it their is another variable that comes into play. Yikes!
Maybe I'm over thinking it.
I think I need help. I always was a little OCD. :shock:
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by cranky »

Stargazer14 wrote: The more you try to raise the AVB, the more apple you will loose, and in the end all you will have is oak. From my experience so far, I say oak what you have.
+1
If you are happy with the white brandy oak it at the ABV it's at, it will be fine.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by SaltyStaves »

I've only just started, but I've been following Calvados methods.
M/M+ toasted French oak. Not charred.

Many of the well aged Calvados are from a Solera system where 25% of the oak is from virgin French oak barrels. The remaining barrels can have a huge range of age from first fill wood, right through to utterly spent. Sometimes they are vatted together and then spend considerable years marrying in spent barrels.
Some of the very best are bought down to bottling strength (40% ABV) slowly over decades.

Maybe start high and then add water each time you draw a sample.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by MDH »

Never 40%, no. I always barrel apple brandy at around 61-62% ABV.

Outside of regular losses (about 3% a year where I am, which is quite high but they are located in a place with strong air circulation and heat), I gently proof using collected rainwater to about 46.5%. From there losses incurred during processing (bottling, transferring, etc) bring it to around 45% solid.
The still is not a liar. Mash and ferment quality is 99.9% of your performance.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

MDH: Can you elaborate on why not to oak at lower proof please.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by der wo »

Low abv oaking leads to much sweetness, because caramel is more soluble in water than in alcohol. But the spices like vanilla solve better in alcohol. So oaking high proof tastes more interesting generally.
I think your apple brandy will turn ok. But next time better try something like 60-65%.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by Stargazer14 »

Again, mine was barreled at 48% on 4/19 and the difference in that time is nothing short of amazing.
Yes, maybe 60% is optimal, but I would certainly not say "never".
I'm having trouble keeping my hands off mine.
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Re: Apple brandy, ABV, Oak

Post by JellybeanCorncob »

Well: thanks to all for your input. I'm gonna put the 1/2 gal of low proof apple brandy on some toasted, charred oak and see what happens. But I now have a half gallon of faints for the next time I do an apple brandy. That should solve the ABV problem. Also I should have my thumper up and running by then. I'll let you know how it turns out in a year or so. :D .
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