Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Information about fruit/vegetable type washes.

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Pikey
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Pikey »

Ok the mess in the apple crusher was recovered and put in my 9 Litre bain marie soup-maker, cooked up until it all fell to bits. There were 7.5 kg there, and the taste was deifnitely "Cooked", so that lot together with 5 kg sugar has gone into a separate 25 litre fermenter. In fact it says 25 on the outside, but I didn't believe it - looks so mauch smaller than my others - so I put 25 measured litres of water in it and plenty of headspace left !

Now I have 7 kg left - so I need to make a decision - just do another 25 litres ? or pick another 7 buckets of plums and buy another 220 litre fermenter ? :shock:
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by cranky »

I've been reading this thread and wanting to post but it has been moving so fast I haven't been able to keep up :lol: A lot of great information here :thumbup:

I say more plums and another fermenter or just ferment in buckets.

One thing I do with plums is ferment for a week to 10 days, then strain it off the pulp and let it finish off the pulp. It tends to be a lot of work though. Because I ferment cold and slow it is never finished in only 10 days.
Pikey wrote:There are other berries I would never think of fermenting neat - Blackberry...
Pikey, I read this and have to wonder why? You are in the UK right? Are the blackberries there not as sweet as the blackberries here? I get at least 6% alcohol out of straight blackberry juice around here so doing a proper blackberry brandy without adding sugar is perfectly doable. It does take approximately 35-40 pounds of berries per bottle of brandy due to the amount of seeds.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by The Baker »

der wo said, ""Folge deiner Nase"(follow your nose) we say only, if for example someone asks the way to a yummy bakery."

We also say that then.

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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by thecroweater »

not necessarily actually more likely a person will be meaning follow ya intuition but we are getting off topic here
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Pikey »

cranky wrote:I've been reading this thread and wanting to post but it has been moving so fast I haven't been able to keep up :lol: A lot of great information here :thumbup:
It's good to have you here cranky 8)

Yes, considering we've only just started page 2 - there's a lot of ground been covered :)
cranky wrote: .....I say more plums and another fermenter or just ferment in buckets.

One thing I do with plums is ferment for a week to 10 days, then strain it off the pulp and let it finish off the pulp. It tends to be a lot of work though. Because I ferment cold and slow it is never finished in only 10 days.
It must be a lot more work for you than me, since you will have proportionately much more waste than I - Do you ever think of a sugar based wash fermented on all this pulp ?
cranky wrote:
Pikey wrote:There are other berries I would never think of fermenting neat - Blackberry...
Pikey, I read this and have to wonder why? You are in the UK right? Are the blackberries there not as sweet as the blackberries here? I get at least 6% alcohol out of straight blackberry juice around here so doing a proper blackberry brandy without adding sugar is perfectly doable. It does take approximately 35-40 pounds of berries per bottle of brandy due to the amount of seeds.
Flavour cranky ! - that's why - I have a bottle of blackberry liqueur I made in 2015, which turned out incredibly flavoursome. It was just a kilo or so of blackberries dumped with a little sugar into a gallon of .... (I think sourmash, but the base spirit doesn't really have much effect). It is still drinkable, but barely so and a real "Sippin' drink".

I have made blackberry wine - but found it rather disappointing - lacking in both acid and tannin, without much body and really not worth the effort. I don't know what distilled blackberry would taste like ? so I'll do 25 litres of sugarhead this year if I get the inclination. However I digress, it would feel very odd to pick 36 lb of flavour like that and squeeze it all up ferment it off, throw all the electric at it and cooling, for 1 bottle of over-flavoured booze. My guess is that it would need to be at least double distilled. Even if I were to do that, I wouldn't be able to let it go :lol: all that flavour ! I'd just have to add the backsett back to the pulp, chuck 15 kilos of sugar in there and ferment it at 75 litres, to take around 3 US gallons of 60% out of the scrap !

I have nothing but praise for the dedication and devotion you demonstrate in your work, but I rather think if I had to put that much effort in - I'd be a pretty sober knid of guy !
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Kareltje »

Why not make a Geist than?
I am now making a series of birdwatchers just to get enough clean alcohol to make Geisten and flavoured drinks.
Hope I can make enough this summer to play in winter and have some left next year when the small fruit comes.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

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Kareltje wrote:Why not make a Geist than?
I am now making a series of birdwatchers just to get enough clean alcohol to make Geisten and flavoured drinks.
Hope I can make enough this summer to play in winter and have some left next year when the small fruit comes.
Geist ? "ghost", "Spirit" ? "Ghost of a spirit...." ?

Sorry K I looked but can't find a definition - are we looking at a maceration ? or a distillation of a maceration perhaps ?
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Kareltje »

Sorry, I thought you knew: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... ilit=Geist

It is a way to get the flavour out of fruits with too little sugar to ferment them.
As I understand it, in Germany they are made after maceration of the fruit and than distilling with the fruit in the boiler. But Der Wo seems to prefer distilling with the fruit in the gin box.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

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Pikey wrote:It must be a lot more work for you than me, since you will have proportionately much more waste than I - Do you ever think of a sugar based wash fermented on all this pulp ?
I suppose it is a lot more work but there really isn't that much waste after a post ferment straining and pressing, certainly nothing I would want to re-ferment. and I don't think it is any more work than the all grain guys go through. One thing worth mentioning is with my plums the flavor can be different between fresh and frozen because the yeast much prefer fresh leaving less flavor behind. They even eat most of the color. If I use fresh plums the wine/must will finish a light pink but previously frozen plums will finish a deep purple color and retain more plum flavor. Of course yellow plums will finish a nice golden color.
Pikey wrote:Flavour cranky ! - that's why - I have a bottle of blackberry liqueur I made in 2015, which turned out incredibly flavoursome. It was just a kilo or so of blackberries dumped with a little sugar into a gallon of .... (I think sourmash, but the base spirit doesn't really have much effect). It is still drinkable, but barely so and a real "Sippin' drink".
A liquor is not the same as a ferment for distilling. Personally I feel the spirit used for making liquor has a great effect because grain based spirits, even neutral ones will contain compounds that will fight with the fruit. That's why I like to use fruit based spirits for liquors. I believe this is why some people say their panty dropper doesn't keep well and goes bad quickly while mine will last an indefinite amount of time.
Pikey wrote:I have made blackberry wine - but found it rather disappointing - lacking in both acid and tannin, without much body and really not worth the effort.
Obviously you either made it wrong or your berries are greatly different than mine. My berry season lasts from somewhere around the first of July to well into December. I use berries picked throughout the season because they start off tart, progress to sweet then finish bitter and produce an amazing complex and full bodied wine well worth the effort.
Pikey wrote:I have nothing but praise for the dedication and devotion you demonstrate in your work, but I rather think if I had to put that much effort in - I'd be a pretty sober knid of guy !
All I have to say to that is I prefer quality to quantity, which is why I've largely concentrated on apples lately. I can pick apples and for that matter plums a lot faster than I can blackberries, so blackberries have taken a back seat. I'm just always curious when people make statements about having to add sugar to blackberries because there seems to be a common misconception that blackberries are low in sugar when that has not been my experience.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Pikey »

Today's ferment - 7 kg + 5kg sugar and around 25 litres total - yeast pitched and airstone working to give the littel breeders some nice ambiance :wink:
2.08.17 resize plums.jpg
[EDit Now I just realised - elderberry season is about to start - and that's my collecting bucket ! :roll: ]
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Kareltje »

Nooo, elderberry starts only half of september. Still time!
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by thecroweater »

nice, but I would piss the airs ton off. Have you got a lid with an airlock for that bucket, ya really want to keep the Co2 layer there. As the unsquashed plums flat into the cap and soften you can mulch them by hand to release the sugar and flavour of them otherwise it won't get into your must. If you don't have a lid cling wrap with some pin holes work, last thing ya want is vinegar flies coming in and turning it.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

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thecroweater wrote:nice, but I would piss the airs ton off. Have you got a lid with an airlock for that bucket, ya really want to keep the Co2 layer there. As the unsquashed plums flat into the cap and soften you can mulch them by hand to release the sugar and flavour of them otherwise it won't get into your must. If you don't have a lid cling wrap with some pin holes work, last thing ya want is vinegar flies coming in and turning it.
Thanks crow - The airstone only lasts an hour before I take it away - just to aereate the wash enough to breed the yeast. Lost the lid ages ago - but no problem, I put a plastic bag without holes over the top, then tie a string to a rubber band, pass it around the bucket and tie the other end back onto the rubber band which is now held at half stretch. - Voila - airtight seal, which will let pressure out. Comes off easy to press the cap down and observe, squidge the plums etc and easy to refit.
Airlocks resize.jpg


I do have some airlocks somewhere, but rarely use them nowadays.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

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Well I strained the ferments today and got a shock - one of them has gone "Wierd" on me - new thread started
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 38&t=67703

Will be running them as soon as possible. My hygiene has been poor at best, vinegar fies everywhere, but nothing has turned yet and I'm hoping to get them run before they do. In the meanwhile, I've put 3 teaspoons of new sugar into each in an attempt to reinstate the co2 blanket.

I'd really like to bottle some of it as wine - I don't suppose anyone knows of a treatment which will kill the vinegar baccilus and allow me to treat a little of the ferments "Just in case" do you ?
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by thecroweater »

not really if its at risk of an acetic ferment run it at the earliest chance, once it starts its pretty unstoppable and will turn ya whole show to vinegar in no time. Vinegar will affect the end flavour and the return in a negative way.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

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thecroweater wrote:not really if its at risk of an acetic ferment run it at the earliest chance, once it starts its pretty unstoppable and will turn ya whole show to vinegar in no time. Vinegar will affect the end flavour and the return in a negative way.
Yep - I've never heard of an antidote either - Maybe I'll just keep a couple litres just in case it hasn't been "Caught" - It's really nice tho' even full of the sediment and so young - NEXT YEAR ! :(
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Pikey »

Just ran one today. Noted some tastes in some of teh tails that I might want, but I ran it hotter than normal as I wanted to use the cooling water to start a 220 Litre ferment, and needed to melt some sugar etc, so my abvs will be wrong atm. I'll get back to it tomorrow. :)
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

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Well the hearts turned in at 59% abv and I ended up returning the first 750 ml of tails. The 750 ml I have for heads is separate at the moment, but I'm thinking it's likely they will go back in the mix as well. Trouble is I don't have room in my 5L demijohn for it all, so maybe I'll need to drink some white and then return the heads and put to age on oak.

I haven't seen anything about toast and char for brandyish sticks - anyone know about this ?

Anyway the last 1.5 Litres of tails went back into the pot with the wash for the next run and now there is only the "wierd one" left. I'll test it over the weekend, see if the SG has dropped any although I tasted it and yes there was considerable dryness and loads of plum flavour, but "sweeter notes" still apparent.

And yes the cooling water made a great warm water for the next "Big" ferment which turned out to be 200 Litres as I need some headspace. It will be a Malt Whiskyish and the wash is calculated to brew to 12%.

It currently sits on Allinsons BREAD ! yeast :shock: with an aquarium heater at 23 degrees and has a foam on top, which the airstone originally generated, but I stuck my head in there today and got the "nose bite" so typical of the CO2 layer on top of a ferment.

[Edit - I have never used bread yeast for a whiskey before, but after my side by side experiment in the "Bacardi(ish)", I can think of no good reason not to try it ! :twisted: ]
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

Post by Shine0n »

I think a used char stick is better if wanting to keep the base likker apparent, fresh char will over power imo.

I personally don't oak any of my fruit likker because I.... just want to taste the fruit but if you do I'd go low on the wood!!! It's easier to wait for the flavor to develop than over doing it and not being able to do anything about it. Believe me I know! I did a quart of plum and 1.5 year later is sill nasty as shit because of too much wood.

Look at Hungarian or French medium toast and no char or if you can find or have access to America oak with a medium toast. They impart great flavors without char and good coloring as well.
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Re: Plums and sugar how big is an Ozzy gallon ?

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Fruit wood is much better than oak for this. I do a blend, one lot very lightly soaked on spent sticks and dried raw plum wood. I have tried mulberry and nectarine but plum wood is good.
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