Dunder pit problems

These little beasts do all the hard work. Share how to keep 'em happy and working hard.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
dan_buddy
Bootlegger
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy »

How to I get the right bacteria in my Dunder pit ?
I keep getting something that stinks like paint thinner ( bad )
I have tried three times and all the same results
I am only tying it in five gallon buckets but would like to have a big drum next year
Alcohol cant help your problems , but nether does water.
User avatar
Tokoroa_Shiner
Distiller
Posts: 1321
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:02 am

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by Tokoroa_Shiner »

Unless you can introduce certain bacteria into it yourself. You will only get the ones around your pit. You could try starting it somewhere else to get a different bacteria and then moving it back to where you want it. Or find someone with a good one willing to send you a bottle of the top of theirs. Should contain enough bacteria to inoculate your pit. Keep a bottle if you start fresh to put in the new pit.
Must read topics for new members

The Rules By Which We Live By
Safety And Related Issues
New Distillers Reading Lounge

Have Fun, Keep Safe and Shine On
dan_buddy
Bootlegger
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy »

Could I put a peace of cheese in there to introduce my one bacteria or is there any where online to buy it :)
Alcohol cant help your problems , but nether does water.
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LWTCS »

Are you in the States?

dan_buddy wrote:Could I put a peace of cheese in there to introduce my one bacteria or is there any where online to buy it :)
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
hellbilly007
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:59 am
Location: Never one place very long

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by hellbilly007 »

I've read that the desired bacteria for a dunder pit is in soil. Perhaps a small handful of soil added could help. Although I've never heard anyone add the soil to the pit itself I've heard of people digging a hole to store their pit in with the top open.
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LWTCS »

Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
dan_buddy
Bootlegger
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy »

Thank you very much bys
Alcohol cant help your problems , but nether does water.
User avatar
bearriver
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 4442
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:17 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by bearriver »

LWTCS wrote:Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
:clap: Good read.

A "starter" from someone else's dunder pit is an interesting idea. If it is/was a viable and available option, it would be something I would pay for when starting my pit.
Drunken Unicorn
Novice
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:14 pm
Location: Three Inches to the Left

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by Drunken Unicorn »

It may prove difficult to remove the bad bacteria from a plastic bucket. I'd suggest getting a new bucket and introducing your own bacteria. Maybe use some yogurt or cheese.

_Unicorn
Unicorns drink beer and piss whiskey.
dan_buddy
Bootlegger
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy »

LWTCS wrote:Are you in the States?

dan_buddy wrote:Could I put a peace of cheese in there to introduce my one bacteria or is there any where online to buy it :)
No I'm not in the states up in Canada why ?
Alcohol cant help your problems , but nether does water.
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12837
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LWTCS »

Been so long that I can't remember why I asked that. :crazy:

Only thing I can think of is that having the desirable microflora in your area would help. And if you are not in cane country you are really going to struggle to make your dunder pit behave.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
dan_buddy
Bootlegger
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by dan_buddy »

I'm in Newfoundland on a rock aha nothing but feed corn and blueberrys
Alcohol cant help your problems , but nether does water.
User avatar
iwine
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:08 pm
Location: The great white north

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by iwine »

LWTCS wrote:Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That is a damn good read to understand Rum.


Thanks LWTCS
LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LG11 »

Please dont use soil! Two organisms spring to mind One Botulinum makes a toxin that no amount of fermenting or messing will get rid of it, the chance of botulinum toxin in your soil? around 4%, low but not worth it,
Is it a acetone type smell? If so then you probably looking at a Kloeckera yeast species, how old is your pit? Paint stripper/acetone type smells are often from invasion and production that leads pyruvate to go the acetic acid route in metabolism, so its heading off in the direction of vinegar. If its a constant problem in your area then I am tempted to ask about your water supply, paint thinner type smells can also be from domestic supplies with a high iron content, this would good as the bacteria responsible for this is easily out competed, part of me would want to buffer the solution before leaving out for inoculation, I would carefully add sodium bicarb aim for ever so slightly high pH (7.2-7.8). slightest whiff add a little more. I suggest if you try this do two buckets, leave one as it is and treat one, Paint thinners is hard to pin down for me because your in the states and I am aware your paint thinners could be a different chemical from the one I associate with.
So over there is it a sweet type smell or more ascorbic/acid like? for want of a better description is it a acetate/acetone/nail polish type smell or more industrial?

YES YES I am interested in this, Just in case you have Gluconobacter (moderate interest) or a true wild Pichia anomala, yeast (I would fly over and collect in person!!!) Buy it a first class ticket on a plane and sit next to it all the way home. The other answers above will get you out the hole, but I tend to want to find out WTF isnt right.
So if you would be so kind as to humour me a little and try and give a fuller description of the smell please, also did you use domestic untreated water? Are you a gardener? (I am thinking iron test kit for soil). Hmmm I still think high iron in your water but will reserve until I know what paint thinners is over there.
LG
User avatar
iwine
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:08 pm
Location: The great white north

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by iwine »

I just started a molasses wash tonight.
I had some aged dunder that I had saved in a 23 liter pail with an air lock (I have fruit fly problem so everything gets locked tight, ), it has been sitting about 3 months. It had an interesting smell almost sweet (it didn’t smell bad) I was going to put into my rum but changed my mind. I took out 4 liters of the aged dunder and I boiled it to make sure everything was dead in it. I let it cool down for about ½ hour. Then I tasted it (I didn’t have the balls to swallow it) just swished it around my mouth. I pick up on a couple of flavors that I kind of liked, BUT there was a slight vinegar taste that scared me,(I make lots of wine Vinegar tastes are BAD BAD BAD) so I didn’t use it. I was doing 40 liters and I thought it was too big of a batch to experiment on. Here is the Pic of my pit.
ps The dunder I used was between the top and bottom layers
Question
Can someone describe what the taste should be? Or have any Ideas if it is supposed to taste that way?
My aged dunder pit
My aged dunder pit
LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LG11 »

Thats highly anaerobic, If it was me and I except others will view differently, I would set up a aquarium pump to go off twice a day for 3-4 mins. You can run the air line through some wash jars first to ensure the air entering the bucket is microbe free (I will do a separate post on this). Vinegar taste gives away alot, the sweet taste is highly likely to be acetone (if the taste was slightly chemical in nature) or more likely Isoamyl Alcohol. Boiling dosnt always kill bacteria by the way.
If you want to mess with it then add 4-5 pints of water (straight from the tap if you want), add a airline as above, wait 4-5 weeks see what it starts smelling like. I have no idea if anyone is interested or not but I am working on some simple to use chemical test kits, these work in a similar way to water test kits you would use in an aquarium. I am working on ones to detect some of the nastier chemicals you can get in a bucket, price wise members here would pay 5% above cost (just to cover time), and I would expect most the test kits to be around the same as aquarium test kits.
I would love a sample of the bottom of that lol.
User avatar
firewater69
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:55 am

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by firewater69 »

I have been keeping my pit in the shed, i topped it off after a run on saturday & brought it inside (keeping it warm / active). I came home from work today to check on it and it was bubbling away, smells yummy. i guess the moldy layer got churned. Has anyone else had this happen?
IMG_20150112_184513.jpg
Moonshine.... American as apple pie & it's part of our heritage, history & culture.
pochine
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:38 pm

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by pochine »

LWTCS wrote:Here is a good read for better understanding:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0380.x/pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
So what I got from that great document is that we need Lactobacillus
and Propionibacterium species? So where can I get my hands on some.? The local bacteria store?
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by NZChris »

pochine wrote:So what I got from that great document is that we need Lactobacillus
and Propionibacterium species? So where can I get my hands on some.? The local bacteria store?
Cheese cultures, I have them in my freezer for cheese making. A slice of Swiss cheese might do for a starter.
User avatar
DAD300
Master of Distillation
Posts: 2839
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:46 am
Location: Southern U.S.

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by DAD300 »

pochine...why yes you can.

You can buy active lactobacillus at the health food store in capsules meant for humans.
lacto.jpg
lacto.jpg (3.84 KiB) Viewed 4435 times
I broke a few into the top of a ferment and puff...it was infected. The top was covered in a day.

They have Propionibacterium also, but it is priceyyyyyy.

You might even find a probiotic with both in the same capsule.
CCVM http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... d#p7104768" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Ethyl Carbamate Docs viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55219&p=7309262&hil ... e#p7309262
DSP-AR-20005
pochine
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:38 pm

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by pochine »

DAD300 wrote:pochine...why yes you can.

You can buy active lactobacillus at the health food store in capsules meant for humans.
lacto.jpg
I broke a few into the top of a ferment and puff...it was infected. The top was covered in a day.

They have Propionibacterium also, but it is priceyyyyyy.

You might even find a probiotic with both in the same capsule.

Cheers DAD,

Looks like I'm going to infect my dunder soon. :crazy:
User avatar
firewater69
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:55 am

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by firewater69 »

Im totally hooked on dunder, i love the flavors it gives. I have fed mine chunks of raw pinapple as well as fresh dunder, gonna feed it a banana next. im guessing the action im seeing is because i just topped it off.
Moonshine.... American as apple pie & it's part of our heritage, history & culture.
LG11
Novice
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Dunder pit problems

Post by LG11 »

You can also order bacteria from educational supplier companies, be careful and read up first on anything you add. Natural cultures from organic material you add such as fruit are always best because they find a balance, or you need to go totally the other way and precisely control what you put in. Yes some get away with adhoc but I am talking about being sure its a winner time after time, also some think that the capsules they add are doing something.............. Many times you add a dried capsule and I am afraid it does zero, the main problem you run into normally is what is called critical competition level. You shouldnt ever really have a single bacteria but this can happen if you add enough of one to out compete everything else.
The reason why so many have success just throwing this and that in is because it finds its own level, leave most pits long enough and they should come right eventually. Obviously in industry you cant run things this way,in times past however they did this and to many that was the attraction in knowing each batch was different (Look at single cask single malt scotch whiskey for example).
Pits are a bit of a dark art, they can take a while to get the hang of and I dont suggest just tasting things without understanding possible risks involved, I have seen alot of test reports that have sent shivers down my spine. The advantage doing things on a hobby scale is your exposure is fairly limited (in most cases).
LG
Post Reply