Your thoughts

[woodshed]

Following the S3 recipe at 20 gallons with a twist. Added liquid enzymes as well at 148f. Other than that protocol the same.
Overnight rest, blah, blah. OG 1.068. Nice number, a little high but I am good with it.

Here's where your thoughts come in. Into ferment. Done to .996 in 29 hours. Tastes great.

[yakattack]

Holy shit.

[shadylane]

OG 1.068 to FG .996 in 29 hours?

[woodshed]

You tell me? Enzymes will work into the low 80's. Working in conjunction with the yeast just a few more cars ahead on the train?
This is my guess but am looking for others to try this as well. I am doing it again tomorrow night.

Has never happened to me before so I am thinking it has to be the enzymes.

[Truckinbutch]

I'm gonna be a couple months behind you . Brutal's steamer convinced me to tackle AG with Pinto's enzymes . Gonna pick up what materials I don't have on hand to build one tomorrow . One small step for mankind . One giant leap for me .
I'll be following this closely as I build .

[bearriver]

T&T???

[woodshed]

Brutals Steamer is certainly cool. Not yet bearriver. Gonna need a bit of feedback before making that leap. I won't even believe it until I can replicate the results on a regular basis.

[bearriver]

Looks like all the AG folks are on it. I'm looking forward to a formal candidacy.

[woodshed]

I just don't know what to think. Right combo of enzymes, yeast and minerals? Can't wait to try again.

If you try this, and I hope you do if you have the enzymes, please post how it affects your protocol if any. Any malted grain will do.
Just looking for results either way.

[SoMo]

Woodshed I think you're correct the malt and enzymes seem to work well together. When there was the back and forth bickering on the Booners I made a bunch of little mashes and used some malt with the enzymes and ground corn and got some really good SG's. I put em all together and ran a really good monster mash. Even used some potato flakes. It turned out pretty good.

[Brutal]

Brutals Steamer is certainly cool.

Made me feel pretty good on a late Sunday night.. drinking.. should be in bed..

Can't wait to use it again. Was going to experiment a little first but now I plan to hit up the LHBS and get the malts I need to make the s3 asap. The variation that came to mind first was to use unmalted grains, and the enzymes. Might do like you say and put some Sebamyl with the normal grains.

Very interesting work folks. Keep it coming.

[WooTeck]

Following the S3 recipe at 20 gallons with a twist. Added liquid enzymes as well at 148f. Other than that protocol the same.
Overnight rest, blah, blah. OG 1.068. Nice number, a little high but I am good with it.

Here's where your thoughts come in. Into ferment. Done to .996 in 29 hours. Tastes great.

thats crazy fast. well be following this to see everyone else's results

[warp1]

I did the same woodshed...but didn't take OG's. Fermenting in my cold basement 55-60, so expect to be slower anyway.

[woodshed]

Ran this ferment today. Taste and smells just like the no liquid enzyme S3. Half the heads though which is same with my Booner's compared to my corn malt Smoke Shine. Also cooked up another mash to try and replicate this fast ferment again.

[woodshed]

Into the tank today @ ten am. Bubbling at an hour. Just like the last one. See where it's at tomorrow at 3.

My thoughts/hopes so far are this. The additional enzymes were really not used since the malts were capable of converting themselves.
They went into the ferment fired up for what they could get and got to work as the grain enzymes slowed down? Breaking the chains even further.
Higher altitude affecting the listed workable range of the enzymes? Water boils at a lower temp. Just thinking online here hoping for any input.

[Odin]

Interesting thread! What temperature does your fermentation reach, Woodshed? I find that with bigger sizes, temps go up and the warmer it gets (32 degrees C) the faster it goes. 29 hours is ... increadible though. I have heared of all malt doing it in 72 hours. And molassis hitting it home in 48 hours, but this is a new record. Can you tell us about grain bill, ph, temps, please?

Regards, Odin.

[Brutal]

Following the S3 recipe at 20 gallons with a twist. Added liquid enzymes as well at 148f. Other than that protocol the same.
Overnight rest, blah, blah. OG 1.068. Nice number, a little high but I am good with it.

Here's where your thoughts come in. Into ferment. Done to .996 in 29 hours. Tastes great.

Which exact enzymes did you add?

[heartcut]

Woodshed, what was your ferment temp? I can try this at sea level.

[woodshed]

I pitch yeast at @80F. Both these ferments peaked at 83F. They were maintained in same ferment vessel @ 80F.
Grain bill is 40 lbs for 20 gallons. 63% malted 2 row,31.50% malted rye, 5.5% cottonwood smoked 2 row.
Water is filtered to remove chlorine and other nasties then built back up with a pre natal vitamin and mineral mix we get from an old hippy friend of mine. She is a midwife. Really no different than store bought vit/min pills. No junk maybe the only difference. This mix goes into all my mashes and again at ferment.
Strike water is 158F which puts me at 148F at grain addition. This water has been adjusted to a ph of 5.2 with backset. At this point I added the SEBAmyl enzyme. Quick stir and covered it up for the night. All my mashes get an overnight before transfer. Ph is adjusted once in ferment tank to 4.8 for the yeast. Again backset.

Today with the follow up at the 29 hour mark I still had a bubble every 15 seconds. SG was @ 1.000. Close enough for me to see some consistency. Now I am at home so won't know exactly when it stops. Since a labor of love is never done I will be working at the distillery tomorrow. Got a couple of runs to do. Will check FG then.

Also thinking the overnight has a lot to do with it. 12 to 14 hours for the enzymes to work. Considering the work the enzymes present in the malt have already done it stands to reason the chains will be shattered after an overnight. Glucose is so readily available the yeast just powers through?

Maybe the fact that the enzymes will work to a lower ph than the yeast is helping the yeast do the same? Once again just throwing out ideas.

[cb_j]

What's your yeast procedure?

[Brutal]

My (almost) standard s3 mash ended up with a light smell of puke.. I know with an all malt mash there are some risks, but I don't like that shit at all. I may have just ruined a mash. I propose a different mashing method that includes your method of adding enzymes. Water + grains cold, then steam (or otherwise) heat up to 149-150 and let it rest 30 minutes. Then heat up to 200+. On the way down stop and add the Sebamyl at 150~ degrees, and rest 30 minutes. Then cool and pitch like regular. This method would utilize the power of the malt to convert starches, then it would sterilize the mash, and then it would utilize the power of the Sebamyl to finish the job. I'm a little upset at the slight puke smell of my current modified s3 mash. I've never done an all malt mash before, and I've never smelled this particular smell in any of my sugar wash forays. It may be completely normal.. for this kind of thing.. but at this point I think unless it becomes a great thing and it's worthwhile to harness and control it, it's probably better to snuff it out. We shall see.