Side by side ferments

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Side by side ferments

Postby Pikey » Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:45 pm

Both 25 Litres These are two ferments of my "Very Bacardi (ish)" ie 5 kg sugar, 400 ml Molasses (feed), a little citric acid and some Tronozymol nutrient.

They were both started Saturday 22nd and will finish when they do. One has been started using a "Gervin GV7 restart yeast" (5 gm).
The other was started with "Allinsons Bread yeast" around 30 gm. Both have started well in well-oxygenated wash, although the bread yeast has the edge, there being significantly more of it !

There is a slight difference in the starting liquors, since the "Gervin" side was an existing ferment which had been run and the lees left hanging about during the very hot weather we had recently. It was on Lalvin ec1118 yeast. The new ingredients were simply tipped into the fermenter and aeriated as I often do. However they did not start (I think I cooked the yeast) - Hence the restart yeast and no attempt was made to dissolve the sugar. The Bread yeast bin was 1/2 filled with quite hot water and the sugar etc tipped in, so there will have been a good deal of dissolving in a mildly acid solution, so possibly some "Inversion" as well.

I'm particularly interested to see how long each takes and whether they each use all the sugar. Whether we can taste a diiference in the final product remains to be seen as well.

I'll let ya know when something interesting happens. :)
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Shine0n » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:22 pm

How are planning on running them, srtip/spirit or a single run?
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Pikey » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:34 pm

They will be run singly Shine - on . I usually put the feints from the previous run in with the wash - but this time, I think it is only fair to run each as a stand alone. Sure there will be less product, but it is only the very hearts cut which is the "Bacardi (ish)" and a process of trial and error has defined the quantities. There's just enough flavour and not too much - for the alcohol produced.

[EDit - actually, I'm not quite "balanced" - 1 of my measures contains the flavour of a "double" of "Bacardi" - but my measures are at 60% abv - so overall I'm a little lacking in alcohol / unit flavour :lol: ]
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Shine0n » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:45 pm

I think the bread yeast will win the race to finish first but the 1118 is well know to finish super dry.

One of the things I like about bread yeast is the flavor it imparts in my rums and whiskeys.
possibly from over pitching but that's how I like it expecially in my sf.
Ec1118 I've only used a handful of times (with fruit) and it femented out to below 1.0 each time and made cuts very easy, I've not used it in rum as of yet.

This should be interesting, let us know how it turns out!
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Pikey » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:49 am

Shine0n wrote:I think the bread yeast will win the race to finish first ........


Possibly S0 - It has a good froth on top - but the Gervin has a nice creamy looking "Guinness" head too. The bread yeast has the advantages of size of pitch and a goodly portion of the sugar already dissolved in the wash, but the wash is a little sugar heavy and the temperature is currently not tropical.
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Still Life » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:12 am

ahh.. rum.
Doing 3 myself right now (the one in my signature).

I can only bet you're going to save some dunder and pursue your Navy-esque in subsequent runs?
Or just some 'Bacardi' for Bacardi's/yeast test sake?
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Shine0n » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:32 am

My new motto is if I make rum I have dunder to play with!
I've been doing alot of reading and thanks to der wo for some input as well.
keep on keeping on Pikey!
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Pikey » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:48 pm

Still Life wrote:ahh.. rum.
Doing 3 myself right now (the one in my signature).

I can only bet you're going to save some dunder and pursue your Navy-esque in subsequent runs?
Or just some 'Bacardi' for Bacardi's/yeast test sake?


Just need some Bacardi (ish) - for OH :)

It is also one of the cheapest and easiest runs I make and forms a good base for "Sloe gin" which I make in the autumn. I may do another 220 litre ferment, when the results are in from this little test cos I can't ferment much in the winter.

PLus I need to know the answer to "those questions" about bread yeast (especially since Son in LAw is a baker :wink: )

As to the "dunder question" - there's not enough of the black stuff in here to make much in the way of "dunder" methinks.
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby NZChris » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:29 pm

Pikey wrote:As to the "dunder question" - there's not enough of the black stuff in here to make much in the way of "dunder" methinks.

It is possible to concentrate dunder by running way past where you would normally shut down. If the next strip is in a lagged preheater it will be stripping, so not a lot of the energy used is being wasted.
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Pikey » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:55 am

Thanks for that Chris - full of good stuff as ever 8)

Ok just had a look and teh bread yeast has only a few islands of bubbles on it. The "Dippy finger test" says medium-dry.

The Gervin has still a complete cover of bubbles. The "Dippy fingger test" say "Bitter" so it may be about done, but I didn't dissolve the sugar in this fermenter, just tipped the packets in, so there may still be a little undissolved possibly.

I'll take a look with thermometer, PH Meter and Hydrometer at some point and we shall see ! :)

[Edit - in fairness I just re=ran the "Dippy finger test" and the Bread yeast Has got a bitterness to it, but seems to have another taste sort of masking it to an extent. It is not the intense bitterness of the other wash.
The Gervin has the sharp "bitterness" of molasses, but there is a trace of sweetness too. I think it has a little way to go yet.

Only the hydrometer can give us an indication on where we are atm. ]
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Pikey » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:25 am

Bread yeast ferment is now flat - Gravity .996 taste mild to sweetish at first, dry then bitter aftertaste. Molasses taste much less apparent than in other ferment.

Gervin GV7 ferment - still has bubbles on top. 1.010 Gravity. Taste Bitter with sweet aftertaste, molasses taste apparent if modified.

Temperatures have been 20 - 22 C throughout. 68-72 F

So the results so far look good for the bread yeast. It has undisputedly won the race even though the sugar content was fairly high and temperature was averaging around 70F.

I am surprised it has fermented completely out in less than 2 weeks. I have not given it any advantages other than there being a much bigger dose used to start the ferment.

I suppose now it will all be down to the chairman of the "tasting committee" to review and pronounce judgement in due course. :)
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Shine0n » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:06 pm

Send some to Virginia and I'll let you know. lol
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Pikey » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:51 pm

I have run the bread yeast tonight and the tasting committee has no problem with it - "OH [Edit - in answer to "does that taste ok /" ] - is this a different run then ? "

Now she is VERY critical of even the slightest deviance from the "real thing" - So I have to say at this stage - Bread yeast (ALLINSONS) - does the job, will ferment very well at 70 F and will take a wash of 10-12 % abv without adding "off- flavours" faster than a lalvin ec1118 or a Gervin - whatever I wrote above !

Not what I expected, nor my preference - but hey - results are results ! 8)

I syill have not measured the Gervin ferment - will soon, but she was down to her last Glassfull ! :shock:
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby dukethebeagle120 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:41 pm

can i come to virginia to.
i wanna taste :wave:
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Side by side ferments

Postby Shine0n » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:45 pm

dukethebeagle120 wrote:can i come to virginia to.
i wanna taste :wave:

Come on down, the water is fine! lol
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