Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

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Dnderhead
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by Dnderhead »

It mite be one type of bakers yeast is different than others? Don't remember what brand I tryed, but it tasted like old bread.
and never tryed again. I cant afford throw out what iv invested in mash. besides I can make 100s of gallons of mash off one pack of yeast. so
why scrimp? I can have gallons of yeast in a month .whatever type I want. this year I used one pack of Scottish ail and did my years supply
of single malt mash. and have gallons of yeast left to start next time.next gizmo Id like is a stir plate.
MashMan

Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by MashMan »

I guess I get lazy, run off a wash, run out of time, don't start up another batch or collect any yeast straight away and then a few days/week later decide to clean out the fermenter that never got sealed up properly and start over. yeh i've kept ujsm/yeast washes going for many many generations but they all come to an end sometime.
I guess dnder is right there is no need to use less than desirable yeast, just need more disipline in collecting and storing. going to get myself better set up in this department.
anyhow will post the results of the ale vs bakers when the results are in.
I-GOR
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by I-GOR »

Did a taste test last night. First, I ran the 3 samples as consistently as I could, taking my typical amounts for foreshot and heads. I collected down to about 50%+, put in a jug with lots of head room. I tasted them around 37%, white, no oak, room temp.

Distiller’s yeast : least amount of flavor grain or ester, in my opinion, but some corn flavor comes through, I think the tails tend to come through a little sooner. Because of this, the tails from the sugar start out perfumey and end cloying and strong (reminds my brother of grappa). Aside from this, had was the most neutral of the three but still has a "sharp" flavor. Don't know quite how to describe it.

Baker’s Yeast: aroma: not strongly pronounce (wine tasters would say it was
“dumb”), but had some grain-like aroma, a little vanilla-like. Don’t roll your eyes, but had a baked bread taste, reminded me of American whiskey’s that use a lot of wheat, finish had some corn, butter tones, slight burnt. (The wash did settle). On the finish, I can see why people use this for rum, it seemed like the initial flavors were light but the finish heavy.

Nottingham Ale Yeast: Very pronounced and spicy nose, reminiscent of rye, tequila.
Taste, esters really come through on the front, again a spicy, slightly pine (?) pleasant, then whisky-grain-corn, finishing with a sweet corn flavor.

All 3 were very sweet, as usual on singling runs. Distiller’s yeast is easy to use, but seems like has the shallowest flavor. Baker’s yeast seems to have less aroma, not as many up front esters, but a complex finish.

I gotta agree with HolyMac, the Nottingham’s was really the most rewarding, with a pleasant spicy ester aroma and taste up front, but delivering a corn-grain flavor later. It’s a lot of work, but I think doing a cook-an-convert mixed grain recipe like HolyMac (and co) do and using the Nottingham’s would be worth the effort.
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by muckanic »

I've started doing something recently that I had threatened to do for a long time, and that is playing around with a Belgian witbier yeast in my rums. Wash is all-molasses, 7-8% ABV. The original gravity attenuates 67%, so the molasses is probably a bit lighter than blackstrap. The yeast is a bit hard to replicate because I plated it out and picked off both a fruity and a sour (lactic) colony. The sour strain is probably yeast because it ferments like the clappers. Results? Well, loads of butter, but early in the run (contrary to the conventional wisdom that all the rum action is in the tails). Product below about 55% is completely uninteresting to me, and I have no desire whatsoever to recycle the tails. The tails aren't as strong as I am used to seeing with other washes and other yeasts, although I suspect that is where some of the clovey notes from the yeast are winding up.
I-GOR
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by I-GOR »

muckanic wrote: Results? Well, loads of butter, but early in the run (contrary to the conventional wisdom that all the rum action is in the tails).
I believe the diacetyl ester responsible for the butter flavor blows off early, if the wash sits around a couple of days you'll lose it, so it's interesting to hear that you were able to capture it early in the run.

Here's something I just found about the actual chemistry behind the flavor of rum and other esters. It's a lab assignment, but gives good explanation of Fisher Esterification........

http://courses.chem.psu.edu/chem36/Web% ... 2Syn06.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
muckanic
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by muckanic »

I-GOR wrote:I believe the diacetyl ester responsible for the butter flavor blows off early, if the wash sits around a couple of days you'll lose it, so it's interesting to hear that you were able to capture it early in the run.
Diacetyl is actually a ketone if you can stand me getting technical about it. This series of brews had actually sat on the deposit for months after finishing fermentation in 2 weeks. I didn't use any nutrient but did use big yeast starters, equivalent to 15% of the brew. As always, it is hard to know what is yeast and what is ingredients. It could have been some sort of lactate ester. As a general rule, both witbiers and weizen beers need to be drunk young (within 6 weeks), as all the clovey phenol and banana ester dissipates rapidly. Brewers generally don't chase diacetyl. I dunno whether distillation preserves those flavours, and that is something I am interested in investigating.
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by mjdtexan »

HookLine wrote:
shifty wrote:So if I use it in place of turbo yeast do I need to add some sort of nutrient?
Yes. Check the Tried & True recipes section. But various nutrients sources include, tomato paste, well cooked wheat germ, molasses, vitamin B tablets, dead yeast itself, and fertilisers such as DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) and magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts).
Really, dead yeast? I had not heard that. I've often wondered if there was a good thing to do with the dead wine yeast in the bottom of the carboys. Thanks for the tip.
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HookLine
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by HookLine »

mjdtexan wrote:
HookLine wrote:
shifty wrote:So if I use it in place of turbo yeast do I need to add some sort of nutrient?
Yes. Check the Tried & True recipes section. But various nutrients sources include, tomato paste, well cooked wheat germ, molasses, vitamin B tablets, dead yeast itself, and fertilisers such as DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) and magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts).
Really, dead yeast? I had not heard that. I've often wondered if there was a good thing to do with the dead wine yeast in the bottom of the carboys. Thanks for the tip.
Boil up some yeast to kill it, and it will provide pretty well all the nutrients the live yeast will need.
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Re: Bakers yeast v distillers yeast?

Post by Usge »

Can't speak for the other yeasts...but WD whiskey yeast with AG...produces a very sweet smelling mash that has a tilt toward banana esters...which in my experience makes a good profile for a "whiskey". I was warned off of using any kind of bakers yeast early on (because it produces ester and congener profiles that taste funky) and just never tried it. I've heard of people experimenting with all sorts of brewers yeasts to get different' flavor profiles.

I tried to just use malt/wild yeast and never could get it going good enough and it smelled "sour". So, I dumped in the WD yeast and within a day it was sweet and smelled great.
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