i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv but

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i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv but

Postby adanac58 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:58 am

okay so i am doing a little bit of everything mash now . all the sources of sugar i had in my house at the time turned out to be enough to make a mash . first i did a plain sugar mash with just bread yeast the potential alcohol was 14% , it wasnt fermenting at all so i then dumped the 4 , 1 gallon jugs of mash into a carboy . i added the lees from a batch of wine . some raisins and tomatoe paste . after that was done fermenting i decided to see how much more alcohol i can get out of it . i added about 1/8th jar of honey . a good long squirt from a bottle of corn syrup after that was done fermenting . a couple blobs of mollasses after that was done fermenting . some dark sugar after that was done fermenting . some dry malt extract after that was done fermenting . and i am in dis beileif that the airlock is STILL bubbling from the dry malt extract . to be honest i thaught the honey was over doing it . was my mash able to ferment past 14% because i added a crap tonne of yeast nutrients ?( the lees from a 5 gal. batch of wine , raisins , and tomatoe paste ) anyways is the yeast less likely of dying if there is more yeast nurtients ?
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby likkerluvver » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:30 am

Most of us, I think, don't push bread yeast much beyond 12% or so in order to avoid stressing it and causing off-flavours. :(

EC-1118 is probably a better bet for this type of experimentation.

It will be interesting to see how this fermentation works out. Other than seeing how far you could push the yeast, what were you aiming to achieve? I assume this is for refluxing?




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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby adanac58 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:51 pm

likkerluvver wrote:Most of us, I think, don't push bread yeast much beyond 12% or so in order to avoid stressing it and causing off-flavours. :(

EC-1118 is probably a better bet for this type of experimentation.

It will be interesting to see how this fermentation works out. Other than seeing how far you could push the yeast, what were you aiming to achieve? I assume this is for refluxing?



nope i got a pot still , its gonna be some sassy likker :twisted:
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby likkerluvver » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:13 pm

adanac58 wrote:

nope i got a pot still , its gonna be some sassy likker :twisted:


Isn't that the beauty of this hobby? Almost every combination of ingredients works out. :D :D :D

You certainly proved the value of nutes - Should be interesting sippin.




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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby sparky marky » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:20 pm

Lees from a batch of wine you say?

Any non bread related yeast in there? Maybe a bit of left over wine yeast?....
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby Mud Mechanik » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Sounds like you added more nutrients and sugars than the yeast could convert, bread yeast is good for about 10% abv. which is perfect for a pot still, if you keep adding sugar to it, it will only make something to scorch your boiler, the ferment was done before you added honey.
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby adanac58 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:00 am

sparky marky wrote:Lees from a batch of wine you say?

Any non bread related yeast in there? Maybe a bit of left over wine yeast?....




the yeast that was in my wine is lavalin EC soemthing , and i know that yeast is pretty tolerant to alcohol
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby adanac58 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:02 am

Mud Mechanik wrote:Sounds like you added more nutrients and sugars than the yeast could convert, bread yeast is good for about 10% abv. which is perfect for a pot still, if you keep adding sugar to it, it will only make something to scorch your boiler, the ferment was done before you added honey.


i always rack my wash before putting in the still if it has alot of lees
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby sparky marky » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:15 pm

Are you asking about how your abv went so high when you were using bread yeast? If so, then the answer is probably that it didn't. It was the wine yeast taking over. All those sources of nutrients will help a yeast reach it's max potential.
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby rad14701 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:55 pm

Most bakers yeast can easily reach 14% ABV, but will start imparting off smells and flavors beyond that just as with most other yeast strains... I ferment to ~14% ABV, or a bit above, with Fleischmann's on a regular basis without problems...

But, as he mentioned, adanac58 most likely used EC1118 which can easily ferment to 14% and beyond (~18%)...
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby doctee » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:53 am

rad14701 wrote:Most bakers yeast can easily reach 14% ABV, but will start imparting off smells and flavors beyond that just as with most other yeast strains... I ferment to ~14% ABV, or a bit above, with Fleischmann's on a regular basis without problems...

But, as he mentioned, adanac58 most likely used EC1118 which can easily ferment to 14% and beyond (~18%)...


Rad,

Are you saying that for your neutral, you start with a 14% abv wash? I see many references on this forum to staying around 10%, stripping then refluxing. The last two times I did a neutral, I made a 18% wash using the Dr. Clayton Cones Protocol, then straight into the reflux without stripping first. I wasn't real impressed with the results, very narrow middles. I am searching for that sweet spot of efficiency (high abv washes) and neutral flavor (low abv washes). Is 14% that spot? I do have access to EC-1118, DAP, yeast hulls, etc. if needed.

Thanks,

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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby rad14701 » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:24 am

toddk63 wrote:Rad,

Are you saying that for your neutral, you start with a 14% abv wash? I see many references on this forum to staying around 10%, stripping then refluxing. The last two times I did a neutral, I made a 18% wash using the Dr. Clayton Cones Protocol, then straight into the reflux without stripping first. I wasn't real impressed with the results, very narrow middles. I am searching for that sweet spot of efficiency (high abv washes) and neutral flavor (low abv washes). Is 14% that spot? I do have access to EC-1118, DAP, yeast hulls, etc. if needed.

For a single run through a good reflux column it is possible to use a 14% ABV wash, but individual results may vary... Because of my small boiler I have taken to doing two or three stripping runs and then doing a single spirit run of the strips diluted to ~40%... If a single reflux run of a 14% wash doesn't clean up as much as desired you can either drop the potential ABV of your wash down to 12% or dilute the wash with water down to 12% to see if that yields better results... Remember, water is a filter so it may clean up the wash in the same manner that it cleans up low wines... And a lot has to do with whether you are shooting for pure neutral spirits, or vodka which has some mild flavor...

I accidentally mixed up a wash that had a 17.8% potential ABV recently, because I was in a hurry and getting distracted, which fermented out just fine using bakers yeast even though it took roughly an extra week to complete... Once stripped it tasted fine at drinking proof.. And then when diluted and refluxed it was perfectly neutral... I wouldn't make it a regular habit to shoot for such a high potential %ABV and consider that it a matter of I just got lucky - this time...

The biggest issue is avoiding off tastes and smells...
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby doctee » Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:30 am

Cheers for that Rad. My intent is to make neutral and I have not been very satisfied with putting the wash straight into the reflux. So I am gonna do a couple of strips and water down before the reflux this time. I just spent the morning reading the entire WPOSW thread. I like his idea of keeping the OG at a reasonable starting level to minimize all the crap that's needed to do a high abv fermentation. Funny thing is I don't plan on doing this for another year. I still need to finish the corn whiskey project I started this month. I just like to plan ahead.
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby Sambo » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:48 pm

I seem to be the only one here that gets great results from 48 hour turbo yeast. I use 18 lbs. of white sugar, add warm water directly from the tap at around 90 degrees, and add one packet of 48 hour turbo yeast (not trying to advertise for them) from mile high. After about 7 to 10 days, I add clearing agent and once cleared, I run through a reflux. I am getting above 20% good neutral. I like the fact I don't have to boil, shake, stir, or check until I am ready to add clearing agent.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby rockchucker22 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:51 pm

Sambo wrote:I seem to be the only one here that gets great results from 48 hour turbo yeast. I use 18 lbs. of white sugar, add warm water directly from the tap at around 90 degrees, and add one packet of 48 hour turbo yeast (not trying to advertise for them) from mile high. After about 7 to 10 days, I add clearing agent and once cleared, I run through a reflux. I am getting above 20% good neutral. I like the fact I don't have to boil, shake, stir, or check until I am ready to add clearing agent.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

What other yeasts have you tried? Washes?
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby frozenthunderbolt » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:33 pm

rockchucker22 wrote:
Sambo wrote:I seem to be the only one here that gets great results from 48 hour turbo yeast. I use 18 lbs. of white sugar, add warm water directly from the tap at around 90 degrees, and add one packet of 48 hour turbo yeast (not trying to advertise for them) from mile high. After about 7 to 10 days, I add clearing agent and once cleared, I run through a reflux. I am getting above 20% good neutral. I like the fact I don't have to boil, shake, stir, or check until I am ready to add clearing agent.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

What other yeasts have you tried? Washes?


1+ try a birdwatchers or 4 and strip them then dilute and re-run. You will leave the turbos well allone after if you're after a good neutral to add flavours to :thumbup:
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby Bayou-Ruler » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:45 pm

frozenthunderbolt wrote:
rockchucker22 wrote:
Sambo wrote:I seem to be the only one here that gets great results from 48 hour turbo yeast. I use 18 lbs. of white sugar, add warm water directly from the tap at around 90 degrees, and add one packet of 48 hour turbo yeast (not trying to advertise for them) from mile high. After about 7 to 10 days, I add clearing agent and once cleared, I run through a reflux. I am getting above 20% good neutral. I like the fact I don't have to boil, shake, stir, or check until I am ready to add clearing agent.

Hope this helps.

Good luck.

What other yeasts have you tried? Washes?


1+ try a birdwatchers or 4 and strip them then dilute and re-run. You will leave the turbos well allone after if you're after a good neutral to add flavours to :thumbup:



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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby acetylsleeperjunk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:56 pm

I am certain there is a link somewhere within this site that addresses this question. If so, will someone kindly provide the key word search term so that I can find the answer for myself. If there is no thread addressing this....here is the question.

I assume at least ***one*** goal of distilling is creating a high quality alcohol. I have seen a few posts talking about what distillers are shooting for -> 10-12% some up to 14% however, I have not read why that is the "goal". Is it that above 12% off flavors become apparent and taste becomes an issue? Is it the expense of more hardy yeasts that can handle a higher ethanol content as the sugars are being converted? Is it simply a tradition thing to use bread yeasts?

Again, I am more than happy to find the answer on my own. With a bit of assistance narrowing the search field to a word or words would speed me on my way.
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby Prairiepiss » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:00 pm

Simple. Anything too high will stress the yeast. Giving off flavors.
You want the yeasties happy so they will piss alcohol and fart CO2.
You make them unhappy they just shit in your drink.
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Re: i heard that bread yeast can only tolerate up to 14% abv

Postby biggeroots » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:34 am

Prairiepiss wrote:Simple. Anything too high will stress the yeast. Giving off flavors.
You want the yeasties happy so they will piss alcohol and fart CO2.
You make them unhappy they just shit in your drink.

Now THATS how i can understand things.... proper wording and to the point:)
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