Rum Yeast

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Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:58 pm

Can anybody recommend which one is the best yeast to ferment sugar?

i'm using molasses black strap and whole cane sugar.

Which yeast is the most effective, and where can i buy it.
What nutrients can i add to it? and where can i buy that nutrients

I was recommended bakers yeast, what is your guys opinion?

Thank you for your help.

Alex
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby Prairiepiss » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:42 pm

There are some good recipes for rum in the tried and true section. Those would include all you need.

And these questions have been answered over many times. A quick search should get some good answers.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby rad14701 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:57 am

Bakers yeast has long been a favorite for rum as it can help impart a buttery note that some folks find appealing... In fact bakers yeast works well with most all sugar washes and grain mashes... Don't let the fact that the package says bakers yeast fool you because that exact same yeast gets sold to distilleries by some manufacturers... Even major vintners aren't the yeast snobs they are sometimes portrayed as being... That's more of an artisan beer and wine makers trait where the end product is a result of distillation but, instead, single or double fermentation...
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:19 pm

Hi

Yes Prairierpiss, I'm aware of that. But i want opinion from users, not from a recipe. the person who made the recipe might prefer whatever yeast, while others prefer something else.
Yes, i have searched too and when i search it says "the search is too general" so what do you do in that situation? I add more word and same thing.
I rather ask than searching for something i cannot search.

Rad14701, so where can you buy this yeast. I know the local store has but in small amount. Where can i get like 32oz Active dry yeast?
I found online through Amazon.

When it comes to nutrients for the yeast, what do you recommend?
Can i buy something ready to add or do i need to create my own like the recipes?
I rather buy something ready to use.

Thank you for your help.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:25 am

Ok, so i have been looking around the internet.
I read that it is good to invert the sugar to make the fermentation go a little faster and the taste becomes better when the sugar is inverted.

The PH needs to be 4.0 or lower.

I can add DAP and regular yest nutrients before adding the yeast.

How much DAP, Yeast, and nutrients out of pounds of sugar?

I do not want to follow the recipe by adding tomato paste and fertilizer.

Could you guys help me with this?

Alex
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:33 am

alex-76 wrote:Ok, so i have been looking around the internet.
I read that it is good to invert the sugar to make the fermentation go a little faster and the taste becomes better when the sugar is inverted.

The PH needs to be 4.0 or lower.

I can add DAP and regular yest nutrients before adding the yeast.

How much DAP, Yeast, and nutrients out of pounds of sugar?

I do not want to follow the recipe by adding tomato paste and fertilizer.

Could you guys help me with this?

Alex

You are right about ph, too high and the yeast will stall. Acid blend will drop the ph, as to how much I dunno. Wyeast makes some dam good nutrient, there is also distillers nutrient. You can order from Brewhaus.com or your favorite homebrew store. EC118 might be better for rum, whitelabs says it's used for bourbon, it's up to you, try both. I find bakers yeast has a tequila like aroma, could be nice in a rum. There is a thread with yeast descriptions or go to the yeast company sites and research them, they have a lot of info. Also read about mead making, another product high in sugar. http://www.lalvinyeast.com/library.asp#

Lalvin V1116 (K1) is an active dried yeast for use in rum, brandy and fruit brandies. Isolated in 1972 by Pierre Barre of the INRA Montpellier. K1 is also used in white wines, ice wines, roses and basic red wines. Available in in 500 gram packages for 35.95

Danstil EDV 493
Active dried yeast which was isolated and selected by INRA Guadeloupe on cane molasses. For use in beverage fermentations. Available in 500 gram package.

WLP720 Sweet Mead Yeast
Suitable for rum, and brandies.

http://www.whitelabs.com/distilling/yeast.html
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:52 pm

I just picked up the Lalvin V1116 K1 so that's what I'm going to use, let you know in about a month how it comes out, I just need to find out how much acid blend to use or get a good ph probe.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:20 pm

King Of Hearts wrote:I just picked up the Lalvin V1116 K1 so that's what I'm going to use, let you know in about a month how it comes out, I just need to find out how much acid blend to use or get a good ph probe.


thanks for your help!

Please keep me posted how your new adventure goes.

Alex
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:35 pm

I Just read about

Lalvin ICV-K1 (V1116)

And it seem to be great, i will give it a shot. I will go and see if i can find it on a local brewery or winery.

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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:07 pm

Today i have some sugar fermenting using the K1-V1116

At first i was kind of scare it didn't bubble as much. Just a bubble or so.
Right now it is bubbling like crazy.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby Anemephistus » Tue May 01, 2012 4:28 pm

I use fleischmann's rapid rise bread yeast. I have very good luck with this yeast. As far as it's nutrient requirement I have found when using Molasses that this stuff just lives happily and goes about making alcohol without issue.

I have a method that entails using caramelized sugar as the base fermentation material W/O molasses. When I do this I add A single multi vitamin to 1-3 gallons of wort, 9 mg of potassium & 25 mg of Ascorbic acid & 1 tsp per gallon of bread flour. This may not sound conventional but the bread flour gives the yeast protein and It adds a tiny hint of nutty taste. I have never had a stuck batch doing this and I've made quite a few small batches.

This yeast likes a relatively high ambient temp 85-95F. I have used other yeasts and each imparts it's own touch of flavor but I like this one because it adds a light buttery tone and gives a citrus hint.

The last note I would make is that alot of info out there says bakers yeasts die at 14% abv. By my best estimates and measurements this is not true for this nutrient mix and temperature it's much closer to 17-18% each time.

Please give updates I look forward to hearing how it goes for you with the K-1 I havent used it in rum.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Thu May 03, 2012 6:10 pm

Hi Everybody

The K1-v1116 was not working at first. I waited an hour and it was bubbling like crazy.
It was like this for two and a half days.
Today its the 4th day fermenting and it is bubbling very very slow. I read that it is recommended to let it rest for two days when it stop bubbling so everything settles at the bottom.

For the K1-v1116 i used Fermax as DAT. That is what they recommended me at this brewery place. I will try will DAP next time i ferment to see the big difference (if there is any)
I will also use Bakers yeast in another bash with DAP.

Well it's all about trying, I'm new at this.

I will write more in a few days.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Fri May 04, 2012 4:48 am

alex-76 wrote:Hi Everybody

The K1-v1116 was not working at first. I waited an hour and it was bubbling like crazy.
It was like this for two and a half days.
Today its the 4th day fermenting and it is bubbling very very slow. I read that it is recommended to let it rest for two days when it stop bubbling so everything settles at the bottom.

For the K1-v1116 i used Fermax as DAT. That is what they recommended me at this brewery place. I will try will DAP next time i ferment to see the big difference (if there is any)
I will also use Bakers yeast in another bash with DAP.

Well it's all about trying, I'm new at this.

I will write more in a few days.

Did you use any citric acid to bring down the ph?
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Fri May 04, 2012 10:58 am

Did you use any citric acid to bring down the ph?


Yes i did, i took it down to PH3.8 since the PH for rum has to be 4.0 or lower.
So i went with 3.8

Right now it is bubbling veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slow. I'm sure it will be ready for Sunday/Monday.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Fri May 04, 2012 11:02 am

alex-76 wrote:
Did you use any citric acid to bring down the ph?


Yes i did, i took it down to PH3.8 since the PH for rum has to be 4.0 or lower.
So i went with 3.8

Right now it is bubbling veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery slow. I'm sure it will be ready for Sunday/Monday.

What size batch & how much acid?
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Fri May 04, 2012 11:41 am

What size batch & how much acid?


Mine is 22 gallons, how much i added to the bash i do not remember. Stupid me for got to write it down, and when i lost count i just made sure it went down to 3.8 and made sure it stayed like that for an hour. Of course i used my PH meter, do not like the sticks, not accurate.
I mixed the batch very well so oxygen got in the batch, then I added the yeast when it was 85F

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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby rad14701 » Fri May 04, 2012 6:49 pm

That pH of 3.8 is for finished product, not your fermentable wash... :idea: You need a wash pH that will keep the yeast colony happy and the low pH is quite possibly the reason behind the slow ferment...
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Fri May 04, 2012 7:33 pm

rad14701 wrote:That pH of 3.8 is for finished product, not your fermentable wash... :idea: You need a wash pH that will keep the yeast colony happy and the low pH is quite possibly the reason behind the slow ferment...



Well today is the fifth day of fermenting, that is why it is so slow. The PH was fine, they were really happy in there.
I read that it take 5 to 7 days to finish fermenting.
Others ferment it in three days. Don;t know how they did it.

i will see tomorrow if it still bubbling, if not i will use my hydrometer to see the value.
Yes i did use the hydrometer before adding the yeast.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Sat May 05, 2012 9:54 am

So it has been fermenting for 6 days.
The bubbles are very slow, a bubble comes out every 33 second (average)

Does it has to come to a complete stop?
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Sun May 06, 2012 4:39 am

alex-76 wrote:So it has been fermenting for 6 days.
The bubbles are very slow, a bubble comes out every 33 second (average)

Does it has to come to a complete stop?

No, just check the gravity with your beer & wine hydrometer.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby rad14701 » Sun May 06, 2012 5:31 pm

Heck, for a one gallon wash I'd consider a bubble every ten seconds as plenty done... What's the SG...???
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Sun May 06, 2012 8:57 pm

rad14701 wrote:Heck, for a one gallon wash I'd consider a bubble every ten seconds as plenty done... What's the SG...???



Ok so the first day before i added the yeast the hydrometer showed me 1.094
Temp 85F
PH 3.8
Yeast used K1-V1116 (I tried 5g for every 5 gallon.)
Fermax
Yeast nutrient

Yesterday and today
Hydro 1.024 (I wish i could have got it lower, how can i get it lower? More yeast?)
Temp 82
PH 3.8

For this is used Blackstrap, Whole cane sugar, and cane sugar
22 Gallon total

Today the was is still dark, do i need to strain it?
Do i need to filter it?
Since it has been fermenting for 7 days, and I'm sure it stopped to ferment after 5 and a half days, is it ok to just siphon it to distill it?

Please go ahead and advice what i should have done better.
I'm not going to try to fix this one, just distill it and practice distilling.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Mon May 07, 2012 5:21 am

You have about 9% abv & about 72% attenuation or fermented product. Black Strap Molasses doesn't ferment 100% but sugar does. Just remember that next batch. Molasses is about the flavor, fancy will ferment down lower but I can't find it anywhere around me, so Black Strap it is.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Mon May 07, 2012 5:50 am

King Of Hearts wrote:You have about 9% abv & about 72% attenuation or fermented product. Black Strap Molasses doesn't ferment 100% but sugar does. Just remember that next batch. Molasses is about the flavor, fancy will ferment down lower but I can't find it anywhere around me, so Black Strap it is.


Ok, cool. Thanks for the advice.

When it comes to distill the wash, since it is so dark, do you need to filter it?
I have an internal heat source. I know for grain i have to strain and make sure it is as clean as possible so it doesn't burn on the heating source.
Is it the same for the kind of sugar that i used?

Alex
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Mon May 07, 2012 5:52 am

alex-76 wrote:
King Of Hearts wrote:You have about 9% abv & about 72% attenuation or fermented product. Black Strap Molasses doesn't ferment 100% but sugar does. Just remember that next batch. Molasses is about the flavor, fancy will ferment down lower but I can't find it anywhere around me, so Black Strap it is.


Ok, cool. Thanks for the advice.

When it comes to distill the wash, since it is so dark, do you need to filter it?
I have an internal heat source. I know for grain i have to strain and make sure it is as clean as possible so it doesn't burn on the heating source.
Is it the same for the kind of sugar that i used?

Alex

Transfer to another container by siphon off the sediment, let it sit another week and siphon again and run it. Sounds like it should be very tasty. I use gas heat so I can't say. You might have to clean the element. Cane sugar is 100% fermentable.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Mon May 07, 2012 7:48 am

Transfer to another container by siphon off the sediment, let it sit another week and siphon again and run it. Sounds like it should be very tasty. I use gas heat so I can't say. You might have to clean the element. Cane sugar is 100% fermentable.


I see, should i run it through a coffee filter?
don;t you think it could go bad?

i had this grains that started to create this film on top of the mash. Will this happen to this wash?

Alex
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby King Of Hearts » Mon May 07, 2012 8:06 am

alex-76 wrote:
Transfer to another container by siphon off the sediment, let it sit another week and siphon again and run it. Sounds like it should be very tasty. I use gas heat so I can't say. You might have to clean the element. Cane sugar is 100% fermentable.



i had this grains that started to create this film on top of the mash. Will this happen to this wash?

Alex

It could be fatty acids. Either way don't worry about it. I had a 100% rye wash get infected, still tasted pretty dam good after distilling.
Last edited by King Of Hearts on Mon May 07, 2012 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Mon May 07, 2012 8:45 am

Grain? I thought you used molasses and sugar? Just rack and let it clear. Alcohol becomes a vapor. Nothing else with come out unless it pukes and that will be foam. leave 1/3 head space in the still.



Yes, molasses. I just gave you an example of what happen with my grain mash. Does it happen to molasses too?
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby bentstick » Mon May 07, 2012 3:17 pm

Molassess likes to foam!
It is what you make it
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Re: Rum Yeast

Postby alex-76 » Sat May 12, 2012 10:26 pm

So today i transferred from one bucket to another for the last time. The smell is awesome, like caramel, coffee and chocolate.

At the bottom i found this thick layer. Do you guys save this for the next wash or do you throw it away?

Another question for you who uses internal heating source. Have you done rum with your apparatus?
The color of the wash is not clear because of the black-strap. Will this get to the heating element and burn it?

Is it better to have an external heating element, like propane?

Thank you
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