Home Distiller

Posted: **Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:43 pm**

I inoculated this one with some old Danish cheese that had the right combination of pukey and body sweat aroma. It should be a sign of propanoic and butyric acid producing organisms which once distilled should give some nice fruity aroma. Or maybe I'll just have puke rum? Don't know until you try.

Right now I'm working on a heavy molasses and sugar cane rum. Of 20l, 6 is dunder fresh from the still and then two litres of funky dunder are added two days later once the ferment is well underway. I will be distilling my first batch inoculated using this method tomorrow but don't think the dunder is quite powerful enough yet to have a big effect.

Posted: **Tue May 09, 2017 11:53 pm**

after two months (3?) of the controlled dunder test and still no spores have forms so i am going to say its been a success! I have just put down a wash a couple of days ago and it is smelling good! lots of fruity esters

Posted: **Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:28 am**

Here is my new pit, I used a couple potatoes to start a funk and we'll see how it goes on a spirit run at 25/75% dunder to low wines ratio.
In the near future I will do different pits with different infections to compare and possibly blend dunder together for their contributions.
Shine0n

Posted: **Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:12 am**

it's been 2 weeks now on this and the stuff on the top has either sank or been eaten by bugs???
Either way it's smelling of fruit of some kind and as mentioned before like some soy sauce mixed in.

Just finish another rum strip yesterday and I'll split the dunder into 2- five gallon buckets and infect with Swiss cheese culture and one with 2 cups crushed malted barley.
I'll post pics as the infection starts up.
Shine0n

Posted: **Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:53 am**

Shine0n wrote:it's been 2 weeks now on this and the stuff on the top has either sank or been eaten by bugs??? This sounds bad. What is the gravity of the dunder? What is the pH? Or what did you add in the meanwhile to buffer the pH?
Either way it's smelling of fruit of some kind and as mentioned before like some soy sauce mixed in. Because esterification works only if alcohol is present, I am not sure what's happening here. Either you confuse the molasses flavor with flavors caused by the infection or there is alcohol in your dunder. Unfermentable sugars of molasses don't get fermentable for yeast during the weeks or during the stripping. Normally there is zero alcohol in dunder. This is very different to grain backset. After stripping backset has some fermentable sugars and a alcohol-yeast can work for a while. At least this is my experience.

If you want to know what flavors your infections produce, you have to add alcohol.

Posted: **Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:07 pm**

my new meter says 4.8, I used picking lime to raise it from 3.5
I ran the strip down to 15% so there should be some alc left in the dunder.
Why you say this is bad?

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:04 am**

Shine0n wrote:my new meter says 4.8, I used picking lime to raise it from 3.5 Ok. 4.8 is still low. But should work. The temperature is over 20°C? If possible I would place it where it is hot.
I ran the strip down to 15% so there should be some alc left in the dunder. Yes. 1.5 or 2%. I don't know, if this low amount really produces smellable esters.
Why you say this is bad? It looks like your infection has died. When you read my infected Rum thread, I had this problem. The cause was probably the high SG of pure molasses dunder. Diluting it with water solved the problem.

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:10 am**

It's been near 95-100f for a week now and steady 90f for a while, since I started the pit.
I'll read your posts again and look at what could've gone wrong.

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:26 pm**

Shine0n wrote:my new meter says 4.8, I used picking lime to raise it from 3.5.............

If you're wanting lacto, I understnd it needs neutral ph and a little sugar.

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:34 pm**

Pikey wrote: If you're wanting lacto, I understnd it needs neutral ph and a little sugar.

Not in my experience. Lacto seems quite content at the end of the ferment, typically for me 3 or 4.

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:07 pm**

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote:
Pikey wrote: If you're wanting lacto, I understnd it needs neutral ph and a little sugar.
Not in my experience. Lacto seems quite content at the end of the ferment, typically for me 3 or 4.

That's interesting SCD

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p7480318

Are you sure what you have is a "Lacto" ?

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:40 pm**

Pikey wrote:
Are you sure what you have is a "Lacto" ?

Absolutely. I get it every time.

I read the post already. I read every single post on HD. Quote whatever article you like, doesn't beat my actual experience. I get lacto under acidic conditions.

Again, this is not my opinion or someone else's quoted experience. This is my direct experience.

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:46 pm**

Well your experience is at variance with my own then.

We must all plough our own furrows believing what we believe, unless we are prepared to consider other possibilities.

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:49 pm**

I do not fear enlightenment

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... n#p7438763

Grabbing another pic, brb...

Ok. Tell me what you think this is... this was day one of infection( after fermentation). This is not a told you so challenge. If this not a lacto, I truley want to know what it is. Knowing how to manipulate would be useful.

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:17 pm**

Sorry, I can't identify whether a mushroom is edible or not with certainty from a photo (and I do know quite a lot about them) - I have little interest in contaminations of washes, but if you look at the third picture here :

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... n#p7439462

That is a little more what I sometimes get on top of my washes for a day or so, at the beginning, before it goes away and the yeast drives the proper fermentation. THAT to me is what a virulent "Lacto" looks like. Right at the beginning of a completely new wash, in old fermenters.

The two illustrations you have posted don't look like that - they don't even look similar to each other.

I don't think what you have is "Lacto" - of course I have no way of measuring the levels of lactic acid in the wash, so can't be as certain of mine as you seem to be of yours.

You do certainly have SOMETHING going on there tho' - have you tried measuring you SG before and after that ?

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:20 pm**

Sorry - I can't help - but der wo might come up with an idea or two ?

Posted: **Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:59 pm**

I've not had a lacto in my rum as of yet, I do plan on introducing on via malted barley (hopefully) to my dunder
I do however get them in ag and sf ferments, they look similar to what SCD has going on but from what I've read it could also be a bret, similar in appearance but different in some ways.
I'm not sure what I get but from the posts I've read it's more or less considered lacto.

If it contributes in a positive way then there's no reason to avoid it no matter what it is.

funk is funk, crazy cap or just lingering aromas, as long as it contributes to my final cuts, I'm good!!!

Now, having said that I will state that I need to do alot more reading to contribute heavily on the subject and know what does what to who and what!!!
As for now my dunder pit is smelling great and looks like shit and I will add it to my low wines according to plan with my others, if they contribute... GREAT, Ifn it's not as good as hoped, oh well too.
Shine0n

Posted: **Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:33 am**

The look of the pellicle depends not only on the type of bacteria. So it's not easy or perhaps not possible to identify the bacteria without a good microscope.
With the pellicle the bacterias try to hinder other bacterias to join the party. When the pit is open the pellicle grows faster, because the danger for the bacteria is higher.
When there are bubbles/bowls on the pellicle, it's a sign that also yeast is producing alcohol and CO², not an indication for a specific bacteria. Only possible if there are for yeast fermentable sugars. More likely in backset, less likely in dunder.
But if you infect one bucket with yoghurt and another with soil, you definetely get different flavors. So I am sure when I add lactic bacterias that at least at the beginning the pit produces lactic acid. Later perhaps other bacterias take over. And perhaps after a year all my pits would look and smell the same, I don't know.

This is why I will do my experiment with lactic, butyric and acetic acid in the other thread. I don't have a good microscope. My nose has to judge. But first I have to learn the flavor of the basic esters.

Posted: **Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:32 am**

: molasses wash dunder infected with soil after 1 month.

: molasses wash dunder infected with yoghurt starter culture after 2.5 months.

: molasses wash dunder in an uncleaned bucket, where infected whisky backset was stored before, after 2.5 months.

The story is here:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=66527" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Posted: **Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:28 am**

That's after 18 hours, smell a bit sour and floral. Looks like a mat of dry dirt on top, I dropped my ph meter and broke it so I'm waiting for another to come, hopefully soon as I don't want the pH to drop too much. I did add oyster shells to help slow down and have pickling lime at the readye.

Also pitched new yeast and the temp is in the mid 80's so the new wash started finally, should be ready to run next Friday when I return home and start a new infection with Swiss cheese culture.

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:20 am**

Here's a picture of mine after approx 2-3 months.

Hard to tell from the pics but the growth looks a lot like a brain. Sort of like Der wo's yoghurt dunder.

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:49 am**

It's beautiful!

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:13 am**

der wo wrote:
giphy-facebook_s.jpg
It's beautiful!

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:35 am**

Does it smell a bit like soy sauce?

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:38 am**

Here is mine for my rum:

: After four days

: A week at around 25 C

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:45 am**

A green bottle is cheating!

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:00 pm**

The second picture shows it from above...white as snow..

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:05 pm**

Mikey-moo wrote:Does it smell a bit like soy sauce?

No soy sauce. Not really fruity either. Hardly has a smell.

Posted: **Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:06 am**

vqstatesman wrote:
Mikey-moo wrote:Does it smell a bit like soy sauce?
No soy sauce. Not really fruity either. Hardly has a smell.

Just took another sniff... maybe smells like dried fruit, dried apricot maybe? Only a very subtle scent.

Posted: **Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:59 am**

vqstatesman wrote:
vqstatesman wrote:
Mikey-moo wrote:Does it smell a bit like soy sauce?
No soy sauce. Not really fruity either. Hardly has a smell.
Just took another sniff... maybe smells like dried fruit, dried apricot maybe? Only a very subtle scent.

Cool - and the taste?

Home Distiller

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