Hodgson mills whole grain yeast

[SoMo]

I found this yeast at the grocery store today and was curious if anyone's used it? Bread yeasts not been my favorite flavor as I've preferred the DADY. I'm gonna work up a mash tomorrow and gonna use this one as it's supposed to work better on whole grain products. The ingredients are yeast and sorbitan monostearate, I'm going to mash enough for 2 6gal ferments and will add regular bread yeast to one and this one for whole grain to the other. I wonder if the strain in this "whole grain yeast is able to convert starches quicker than any other which is pretty slow.

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

I wonder if the strain in this "whole grain yeast is able to convert starches quicker than any other which is pretty slow.

Yeast don't convert starches. Did you mean sugar?

[SoMo]

No I meant yeast converting starch, I've seen it mentioned here some where, and in Ethanol production and technology. They are out there.

[dirtymax731]

Yeast just eat. Enzymes convert starch. Yeast would die at the Temps needed for conversion

[SoMo]

The materials out there read a bit.

[SoMo]

Look up yeast converting starch to sugar.
Resizing chopped it all out but it's out there. This is one of those cases where research verses regurgitation of old information is needed to fully understand the depth of the progression of fermenting and distillation.

[WhiteDevil504]

For those curious I think the bottom one is from this link:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22797599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


I think the problem is even at this point yeast that can convert starch itself is still hyper specialized, the end of that paragraph reiterates that with the strain they are studying that while the yeast does convert some starch "although not at high starch loading or conversion rates that will be economically viable". So likely off the shelf solutions will have even less conversion capability. It will however be really interesting to see what percentage you do get. Please post your progress, it's always interesting reading how these things go.

[SoMo]

I thought so too, sorry to the other posters if that came off rude or disrespectful, that wasn't my intent it just gets frustrating seeing so much repeated with out the info or research first hand. I'm gonna do my mashing in the morning and will see how this yeast does compared to the regular bread yeast. I also sent an email to hodgson mills to see what info they are willing to pass on to us.

[WhiteDevil504]

Not to pile more work on ya but have you considered doing a parallel ferment using bakers yeast to directly compare SG/fg between the two? My bet is that there will be very little difference if any between the two but I hope you prove me wrong.

[SoMo]

Yep that's my plan to compare the whole grain yeast to the regular bakers.

[WhiteDevil504]

Awesome good luck!

[Tokoroa_Shiner]

In the last sentence of the first paragraph of the first pic you posted, it says that enzymes are added to break down the starches to sugar. And in the last whole sentence of the second picture, it also says that starch-hydrolizing enzymes are needed. Maybe their yeast packet contains a small amount of amylase enzyme to convert some of the starches to sugar to allow the yeast to generate more co2. Making the baking rise more.

[SoMo]

My reference in that one was the 3rd paragraph stating they were developing yeast capable of converting on their own. Let's keep the conversation going, it's this new stuff that we need to keep finding to not only advance our hobby but breadth of knowledge and understanding.

[ga flatwoods]

With everything we already know about "turbo" yeast and their relative use for fuel vs consumption alcohol, I would challenge that the yeast to which they are referring is a GMO "super turbo" not worth a damn for our purposes. I use Hodgson Mills products often as they have a wide offering, although expensive, that is not readily available from other sources in the groceries. Somo you must run some tightly controlled tests to recognize a significant difference I would guess. I look forward to your results but with a knowlege that most times two of the exact same batches can render differing results from the still. I personally want a lower not higher abv as one would for fuel production.
Ga Flatwoods

[SoMo]

GA, you're right the control factor in a non laboratory setting may be the biggest variable in the trials. What I think I will do is weigh everything as best I can and do side by side ferments. I wanted to do one big one and split it but getting everything exact trying to mash may be the most difficult part.

[Prairiepiss]

My question about this yeast is more about its intended use.

Most all breads we have been making. (See the bread thread) And most all the recipes out there. Don't exactly use the grains (flour) as the source of sugar for the yeast. The sugar is added. Whether its table sugar, honey, molasses, or any other sugar source.

The yeast use the sugar as food. And use up some nutrients provided by the other ingredients. We all know this.
Yeast is an inefficient converter of starch. I may convert some. But its a slow long process. That really only happens when sugar is not available.

So with that all being said. Back to this yeast and its intended use.

How is a bread yeast determined to work better with whole grains? And what difference does this make in baking bread? Since the yeast are really feeding off the added sugar. What difference does it make that the flour used is a whole grain flour. It's not converting it to sugars.

My suspect is opposite of GA's. Not a turbo. More like an all grain ale yeast. That someone thinks would work better with whole grains. Because that what its used for. But don't know enough to see that the difference in making bread. Won't make that much difference.

Basically just a big marketing ploy.

The stuff added may aid in conditioning the bread. But what will it do for a true ferment?.

Just my two nickles.

Now Somo. This thread got me thinking. Is there a home brew shop down there in Springfield or surrounding areas? Somewhere I can get supplies once we have moved? And where did you get this yeast? I would like to try it in bread making. Just to see what difference we get.

[SoMo]

Yeah PP there's a home brew store in Ozark, behind Lamberts, that's where I get my stuff, I would love to see you school them on turbos etc..they do sell them but not to me. The yeast I got from murfins market grocery store there's one in Ozark also. I have that pup, if you are interested.

[Prairiepiss]

Cool I know where that murfins is. Have driven buy it many times. So they carry hodgson mills stuff? We have been playing with some of their flours.


And nice to know about the home brew shop. I won't school them on turbo. I haven't done it here won't do it there. Hell there are people that use it for wine making. And like it. I will never understand it.

And yes still interested in the pup.

[SoMo]

Pp one good thing about murfins markets is if they don't have a product they will get it for you. They carried about ten kinds of yeast here in my local store. I've used up my lb of BSG DADY and was happy with it and got the bread yeast for in the mean time until I can get back down there. No rush on the pup she's not going anywhere.

[SoMo]

I'm gonna try and do my mashing tomorrow as sometime life's priorities put hobbies on the back burner. The only way I can think to do this side by side is to make on big mash separate it equally as best I can to two fermenters and add the yeasts to each at the same time. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

[SoMo]

Well I wasn't able to do this like I wanted to as a side by side ferment and if I can't use the scientific method then it can't be fairly compared within a reasonable way to have definitive data. That being said I made up a mash starting yesterday filling my cooler with approximately 20lbs of cracked corn rough cut big sizes, siphoned enough backset smoldering hot to cover by a couple inches. 3 hours later it had swelled to the point of popping the lid open think popcorn. Brought a few gallons h20 up to a boil 4g actually, transferred swollen corn to bigger cooler covered with boiling water let sit a few more hours stirring ever so often to loosen the brick of sludge. Cooled to 150 added four lbs six row and a tablespoon of generic amylase from HBS. Followed mashing protocol stirring, checking etc. let sit a while longer and took a SG off the clear liquid on the top.
Here's what I got 140*f 1.045 temp corrected to 1.058.. Perfect.
I had to crash so I let it go until morning bit I did sprinkle another 1/2 tbspn amylase in and gave it a stir, cracked the lid and put a fan on it on oscillate and went to bed. I got up this morning it was 90*f took SG 1.070.
This is the third or fourth one that giving it a longer conversion time and adding amylase has gotten me such high SG one was 1.078.
Back to task had to pull out 3/4 of a gallon or so added back water to get 1.060 my happy place. Aerated. I did add a few pounds of the spent grains to the fermenter.
Temp at 85*f 6 gallon pitched one packet straight into the wort gave a stir put the lid on and let her go. That was this morning. A few hours later it was going strong this evening even stronger. Pretty happy it does have a much different smell than using regular bread yeast or my DADY.

[SoMo]

Dry today.999 pretty quick with that yeast, I may just strain it and run it with my low wines from my last run.

[SoMo]

I'm running it now, it's different, in a good way.

[SoMo]

This yeast is very aggressive in fermentation, seems to finish very quickly with starting SG of 1.065, goes below 1.000 dry. Using starters on new mashes and washes seems to like the grains better, could be more nutrients.

[SoMo]

I finally got a response from them, it's a different strain of yeast with vitamin C added and they add 25% more yeast to the packet for proofing whole grain doughs.

[wishbone77]

I finally got a response from them, it's a different strain of yeast with vitamin C added and they add 25% more yeast to the packet for proofing whole grain doughs.

SoMo, what ever came of this experiment? I just happened on this same yeast at the grocery store and looked up this thread. Would you recommend or not recommend this yeast, and if you do recommend what mash bill (ish) would you use this in?

[wishbone77]

I finally got a response from them, it's a different strain of yeast with vitamin C added and they add 25% more yeast to the packet for proofing whole grain doughs.

SoMo, what ever came of this experiment? I just happened on this same yeast at the grocery store and looked up this thread. Would you recommend or not recommend this yeast, and if you do recommend what mash bill (ish) would you use this in?